HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-19-12 Study Session Minutes - BSCDublin City Council
Study Session — Bridge Street Corridor Code
(Ordinance 07 -12)
Monday, March 19, 2012
Minutes of Meeting
Vice Mayor Salay called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m. in Council Chambers.
Present
Council Members Vice Mayor Salay, Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher, Mr. Gerber, Mr. Keenan,
Mrs. Boring and Mayor Lecklider arrived at 6:10. Mr. Reiner was absent.
Staff: Ms. Grigsby, Mr. Smith, Mr. McDaniel, Ms. Mumma, Ms. Crandall, Mr.
Langworthy, Mr. Hammersmith, Mr. Gunderman, Mr. Hahn, Mr. Tyler, Mr. Goodwin, Ms.
Ray, Mr. Phillabaum, Ms. Husak, Ms. Rauch, Ms. Martin, Ms. Willis, and Ms. Ott.
Vice Mayor Salay stated that the purpose of the meeting is for Council to review and
discuss the details of the proposed Bridge Street Corridor Code, Ordinance 07 -12,
which is scheduled for a second reading on the March 26 Council meeting agenda.
Ms. Grigsby stated that a staff presentation on the BSC Code was not prepared, as
Council indicated this meeting was solely for discussion purposes; however, the
information from the October 17, 2011 study session on the BSC Code is available. In
addition, materials provided for tonight's meeting include comments received from
developers and builders regarding the proposed Code.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that last week, Council received an email from the owner
of Red Rooster Quilts, located on Corbins Mill. For clarification purposes, what are the
differences between the Code Council originally wanted and the version that is
proposed for adoption? Has everyone who has contacted the City now been
accommodated, with the result that the Code is other than what might have been
Council's intended outcome? Or does the document, even with the accommodations,
still meet the intent?
Mr. Langworthy stated that he believes it does. Most of the accommodations that were
made in response to property owners' requests were entirely appropriate. He has
discussed this with staff, and staff does not believe too much compromise has been
made. The requests that were not accommodated were primarily those that would
affect building quality. Most of the requests were related to architectural details or
clarification of language, and were very helpful.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that she appreciates that clarification, but several of the
questions raised related to changing the use of their property. How is that issue being
addressed?
Mr. Langworthy responded that issue does not relate to the text of the Code, but to the
zoning map. The Planning and Zoning Commission received several requests from
property owners within the corridor to change their zoning designation from what was
recommended, and most of the requests were accommodated. Staff concurred with all
of the requests except two, which were considered too much of a departure from the
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vision. Those two were: (1) a site on the south side of SR 161 east of The Shoppes of
River Ridge, and (2) a site across Village Parkway to the west, at the curb, extending
the "Sawmill Center Neighborhood" zoning into that area. Those two requests were
considered to be harmful to the BSC vision; the other requests were considered to be
appropriate accommodations. The most recent request for the property on Corbins Mill
was discussed by staff. There is no particular objection to changing that zoning to BSC
Commercial from BSC Historic Transition, if that is Council's preference.
Vice Mayor Salay asked if a business is rezoned from their current, and preferred,
Commercial zoning to the proposed BSC Office, and they want to continue to operate
their current business, what would prevent them from later changing that use? What
she has understood is that the proposed rezoning accommodates their existing use --
they will not be required to change their business. The auto dealership asked to remain
in Commercial zoning versus Office zoning. If the City does not accommodate their
request and they are zoned Office, what will result for the business?
Mr. Smith responded that the business can continue to operate as they are indefinitely,
if that is their preference. However, this Code does not prevent them from requesting a
change at some future time. When undertaking a rezoning for a project area of this
size, there will be some property owners who wish to remain as they are currently
zoned. Specific steps have been taken with this Code that should alleviate their
concerns. Potentially, all property owners in the entire district could request to remain
as they are currently zoned, and that would destroy the entire vision. However, any
particular requests have been addressed.
Mr. Keenan asked if a business that is currently zoned Commercial but will become
BSC Office with this rezoning later desires to expand its current business — will it be
permitted to do so?
Mr. Langworthy responded that this possibility was considered on an individual property
basis. This Code has a provision that permits the business to expand up to 50%
beyond its current size. However, that expansion is larger than the businesses could
practicably fit on their properties.
Mr. Keenan stated that the zoning map proposed by the Planning Commission is the
one that he would support.
Mr. Langworthy responded that the Commercial zoning along SR 161 is the area of
concern. In the original Vision Report, one of the central focuses of the Plan was to
create an "address street" along SR 161; to create an opportunity for businesses to
locate there as "the place to be." What would result if some of the requested changes
are made? What is the potential to harm the ultimate vision? BSC Commercial permits
single -story, retail strip development placed near the street. Since at least 1997,
perhaps prior to that, there has been a vision for the SR 161 Corridor of taller, office -use
buildings to frame the corridor. Staff is concerned that if the Commercial is put in place,
and people take advantage of what is permitted, it will remain a strip commercial area,
more of a Commercial /Retail street than Office. Great effort was taken with this Code to
ensure that the existing businesses are able to operate exactly as they are for as long
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as they wish to do so, and that the City considers them to be conforming to zoning for
refinancing, insurance or any other purposes. However, the business may choose, at
some point in the future, to begin to comply with the BSC Code.
Mrs. Boring noted that Planning staff was willing to change the zoning for some of these
properties.
Mr. Langworthy responded that they did. They have now moved their focus down to the
Corridor, and one other area above Village Parkway, although staff would prefer the
November map be adopted in its entirety.
Mayor Lecklider stated that the proposed BSC Code is now in an exceptionally
accommodating position if the City is serious about achieving this vision. The re-
development across this country has not occurred without some perception that it is
infringing upon someone's rights. However, that is what every municipality, regulatory
body and Code does. During the Community Plan process, there were citizens who
objected to the changes. The other alternative is not to enact this Vision.
Mrs. Boring stated that what is being discussed is a small portion of the area — one
corner.
Vice Mayor Salay responded that it is also the car dealerships and the shopping center
at Riverside and SR 161. For whatever reason, the center has never thrived. Her long-
term vision for the corridor is not for a shopping center in that location or for two auto
dealerships. There will always be some citizen angst with adopting a vision, but, as has
been pointed out, it is necessary to achieve the vision. She appreciates PZC's attempts
to be accommodating, and the Code accommodates the existing businesses. In the
future, should those businesses wish to change, the City's vision can be achieved.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that she wants reassurance that those who complained
the loudest were the ones accommodated, and those who weren't perceived to be as
valuable in the discussion, or those who put their confidence in Council and staff and
did not contact the City and raise an issue, were not accommodated. It seems that in
the last few months, the City has accommodated everyone who came forward and
requested a change in the language. If the language was in fact good to begin with, why
did that occur? Council certainly does not want any harm to be done to existing
businesses — the language should allow for their continuation and expansion until such
time the business desires otherwise -- but she is concerned about the other changes.
Mr. Langworthy responded that the zoning code text and the zoning map are separate.
In regard to the text, the City sent the text to people to review and comment, and most
of the changes that were requested staff considered minor and appropriate to the local
conditions. Staff indicated to the consultants that some manipulation of the language
they suggested would be necessary. Therefore, staff is not uncomfortable with the
changes made to the text. The changes that staff was not uncomfortable with, and
were not made, related to development quality, in particular, architectural quality. The
same was true in regard to the changes requested by PZC. They were not significant,
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were appropriate, and did not alter the basic tenets of the Code. Most were detail -
based, and, in some cases, added flexibility and more discretion to decision - making
authority, particularly in regard to architecture. The zoning map was another issue and
staff disagreed with the changes made by PZC. Generally speaking, there was not a
great deal of discussion by PZC in regard to the changes to the zoning map. Their
direction was that whatever changes were requested by property owners should be
made to the map and then provided to them. Staff did so, but also provided them an
analysis that indicated which of those changes were appropriate and which were not.
The Commission did not agree with staff and forwarded that map to Council with a
recommendation for its adoption. Staff is recommending an alternative map.
Mrs. Boring stated that the map appears to be carrying out the Vision, except for two
small areas. The percentage of the area proposed as BSC Commercial is not that
great.
Mr. Langworthy responded that the issue is not the percentage, but rather the location.
It is a high visibility corridor that will a big difference, as opposed to some of the streets
farther to the north in the Corridor on the east side. S.R. 161 is the "prime address
street," or "character street' that the vision is trying to achieve.
Mr. Keenan stated that part of the intent was to move the buildings closer to the street.
Mr. Langworthy stated that was part of the intent; it was also to achieve some height to
the buildings.
Mr. Keenan noted that there is a service road in place. How will this impact the potential
of having buildings closer to the street in the future?
Mr. Langworthy responded that he is not certain the service road will survive in the long-
term. It may not be needed, but that has not yet been decided. There has been
discussion regarding the potential of on- street parking along SR 161, which would have
to be taken from the travel lanes.
Mrs. Boring stated that in the past, the intent was for office development to occur to the
west. Suddenly, the Commercial is moved west along SR 161, the address street. Why
is the City no longer insisting on Office there, as originally intended? Now, that area
along SR161 /US 33 is being permitted to remain Commercial.
Mayor Salay noted that is the area next to 1 -270. She requested clarification of the
intent for that area.
Mr. Langworthy stated that there is a need for some Commercial within the Corridor.
Goody - Clancy recommended that there be nodes of Commercial provided along the
Corridor, and that was one of the areas they identified.
Vice Mayor Salay asked if that would support the OCLC area, where there will be
Residential and Office and the Indian Run neighborhood districts.
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Mr. Langworthy responded affirmatively. To the north of West Bridge Street, there is
not a large amount of land to be developed, unless Post Road is relocated. That would
make the area a developable pod, but still not a large portion.
Vice Mayor Salay requested clarification of relocated Post Road on the map.
Mr. Langworthy noted that it would be relocated to the east of the existing Toy Barn and
through a roundabout. The section of Post Road after that point would no longer remain.
Vice Mayor Salay asked for staffs response to the request concerning Historic
Transitional versus Commercial? That seems a reasonable idea.
Mr. Langworthy responded that staff has no particular issue with that. The hope was
that all of this property could be consolidated into a single grouping. There have been
several, unsuccessful attempts to do so.
Vice Mayor Salay asked if staff prefers to eliminate the Bridge Street Transitional, or
keep it? The property owner who had an issue with this can continue their existing
business. Is this primarily about consolidation, or is the Historic character being
extended in that direction versus the more modern character that is on the other side of
the river?
Mr. Langworthy responded that the intent was to create a transition from the Historic
District. The long -range plan has additional Historic transition areas that will provide
transition into the Indian Run area and into some Commercial properties.
Mrs. Boring stated that this plan will allow the BSC area at Bridge and Frantz Road to
remain as it is. Another small property has asked to remain Commercial, and that is also
acceptable. Yet, these other two small properties (blue on the map) will significantly
impact the Vision of the Corridor.
Mr. Langworthy responded that is due to the location, not the size.
Mrs. Boring stated that there are some businesses in that location that have been in
place for a long time. Leo Alfred Jewelers recently constructed an expensive building.
And now the City is going to tell them that they don't fit the Vision.
Vice Mayor Salay stated that she does not understand her objection. The City is
encouraging those businesses to continue to exist as they are, as long as they desire,
and they can even expand their business, if they desire. If a weather event were to
impact their property, they are encouraged to rebuild there. If it was not the City's intent
to encourage them to continue as they are and to be considered conforming, the text
would not have been crafted to ensure that.
Mrs. Boring asked what their status would be if they desired to sell their business.
Mr. Langworthy responded that it would remain the same.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher asked if that is only if it is the same use.
Mr. Langworthy responded that it does not need to remain the same. The language has
been constructed to permit it to be sold as the same use or any other uses that were
previously permissible in that same zoning district.
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Vice Mayor Salay stated that she believes the City has done a good job with protecting
existing businesses, more so perhaps than in other times and situations. The City has
always had different visions for various parts of the community because, long -term, it
was considered to be in the best interest of the City to change and evolve.
Mr. Langworthy noted that even in the case that something unforeseen should arise for
that business, they still have the option of requesting a PUD or a different zoning.
Vice Mayor Salay stated that the key is that this defines the vision for property owners
and businesses who will want to make changes in the future. They will have the
comfort of knowing the City supports that. When they make a long -term investment in
their property, it will be supported by the City's vision and these planning documents.
Mr. McDaniel stated that, from an economic development perspective, after the City
heard some of the concerns about being conforming and the effect of that upon their
financing ability, it was addressed. The existing businesses are appreciated; they are
vibrant businesses and the City does not want them to suffer. Not only is the intent to
support the existing businesses, but to also provide them with a "bridging" strategy, if
they should ever desire to change to something else. If development occurs and the
desired density results, they would have options available to them that they do not have
today. It will also be an easier process to make a change than it is today. An effort was
made to accommodate all their needs, yet not "water down" the vision. They will have
the necessary tools to make any changes, if desired, to redevelop and increase the
value of their property.
Mrs. Boring asked about the reasons that PZC has resisted this.
Mr. McDaniel responded that he does not believe they resisted the bridging strategy —
but only the zoning map as proposed.
Mr. Keenan stated that the zoning map is the issue. He is satisfied with everything but
the map recommended by staff. Together with the map that PZC recommends, he can
support the text. Without it, he cannot. Although the text is fine, words alone are not
sufficient. Personal experience with his property has taught him otherwise. Several
years from now when there are different people serving on Council, PZC and staff, there
is risk of a different interpretation. He does not understand staff's concerns with the
PZC map. They have done a really good job addressing the bridging concepts and the
financing and insurance issues.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that she does not believe this will take 20 -30 years to
develop, as that is not the experience in Dublin. Stavroff and OCLC are ready to begin
developing, and there are others who are anticipating Council's passage of this Code so
they can begin the Residential component. This is one thing that she believes will be
important for the City to stay on top of. This is a very different kind of vision and
execution for the City. She works in downtown Columbus and views the fabulous
results with Lifestyle Communities. That is her vision for this area. She expects to have
that level of quality. She believes that there is a need for the City to benchmark itself,
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and in six or 12 months, be willing to tweak this as needed. This is a test, a new
process, and it is also new for the development community. They may find when they
proceed with the execution that it isn't exactly as originally perceived. Council and staff
must be willing to tweak this as needed.
Ms. Grigsby responded that this has been discussed at several meetings, and staff is
aware that there will be changes to this Code, once implementation has begun. Early
on, there will probably be more revisions than later, unless there are changes in the
market or demographics. It will need to be continually evaluated. The Code will now
become the standard for development -- it will not be done project by project.
Mr. Langworthy noted that indicators of the need for revisions will likely be the waivers
that are requested. The waivers will be tracked to see if there are consistent types of
waivers being requested.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that because the City knows this will likely come back for
additional revision, is it possible to identify the zoning map recommended by PZC as an
interim map — with the understanding that it left in place certain things, rather than
making wholesale changes? She agrees with the value of the longer -term vision, but
perhaps it can be accomplished incrementally.
Mr. Langworthy responded that there will be a need to amend the Community Plan in
the future due to the land use changes that are included in the BSC. In the Future Land
Use map, this particular area will be shown as Office, so the City will have those
opportunities in the future.
Mr. Keenan stated that he has no objection to that.
Mayor Lecklider stated that when he considers the map proposed by PZC, he believes
there is too much Commercial. He intends no disrespect to the current property
owners; he is their business customer and expects to continue to be. As this is set
forth, they will be able to continue to operate as such into perpetuity and to expand by
50 percent. With respect to what has been suggested as a compromise, what is the
distinction?
Mr. Langworthy responded that the difficulty is that if a property owner redevelops their
property under the BSC Commercial, it will be much more difficult to transition it over a
period of time. The issue is not with what is occurring now, or even if the business
expands by 50 %. The proposed Code accommodates that. The issue is if the site is
rebuilt into a completely new use -- not what exists there now — and new building. The
difficulty is not with the existing businesses and their expansion.
Vice Mayor Salay stated that it will be the Code and the property owners can do things
by right and not come back before the Planning Commission. Essentially, they would
have the ability to scrape their existing site clean and do something that is not the City's
long -term vision.
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Mayor Lecklider stated that when the Community Plan is updated, they will not be
agreeable to their property being designated Office. They will make the same
arguments then that they are making today.
Mr. Gerber stated that he would like to share his view in regard to the zoning map.
From a planning standpoint, Mr. Langworthy is correct, but reality and politics are the
real issue. There are parts of the PZC map that he supports. Staffs map has the area
around LaScala designated as Office. However, if the intent is to encourage pedestrian
traffic from that area to the Historic District, there should be destination stops or shops
along the way. On the southern edge, it would make sense to expand the Commercial
for that purpose, because it does connect to the Historic District. To the north of that,
there is plenty of Office that well defines the area; to the east of that on both sides there
is Office all the way up to Sawmill Road. North of that is a good amount of Residential.
Without that Commercial support there, people will use their cars to drive elsewhere.
Therefore, a little more Commercial in that area would make sense. If, long -term,
something different is added in the updated Community Plan, he would not necessarily
be opposed to that.
Mayor Lecklider stated that he believes some people are envisioning this area would be
100% Office. That is not his understanding of what the Code would allow. He asked Mr.
Langworthy to comment.
Mr. Langworthy responded that all of these districts have a mixture of uses. In regard to
Mr. Gerber's point, staff and PZC's view is that SR 161 will never be a walkable street.
The issue relates to where people are walking to and from. The frontage is both Office
and Residential to the north. There is opportunity for walking there, as opposed to
Commercial, which is really a drive -to area. The level of Commercial that has been
proposed in that area is much more than anticipated for that area. There is opportunity
for both Office and Retail — restaurants, places for people to walk. To what extent that
occurs depends upon the property owners.
Mr. Gerber stated that people will walk from the northern locations and some people will
drive to that area. Hopefully, overtime, SR161 will become more pedestrian. We can
sometimes be over - retailed as a society, and sometimes the retail is not in the right
places.
Mr. Langworthy stated that Goody - Clancy's opinion was that Retail should not be
spread out over different locations, but concentrated in areas. Retail tends to build
upon itself, it does not thrive as well independently. It would be preferable to
concentrate it, for instance, in Sawmill Center, Bridge Pointe, and the Shoppes of River
Ridge or stand out along the corridor.
Mayor Lecklider stated that BSC Office is not 100% Office. Also in that area could be a
dry cleaner, hair stylist, a deli or a restaurant. Therefore, he is not convinced that any
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more Commercial was needed to the extent proposed by the Planning and Zoning
Commission, recognizing that the existing Commercial could very well be there for the
next 30 years.
Mr. Gerber stated that the area they are discussing is only about 400 yards at most.
Mr. Langworthy stated that it isn't so much the size of the land area that is the issue, as
the location.
Mr. Gerber noted that he is referring to the two parcels along SR.161, only about 400-
500 yards east to west.
Mayor Lecklider noted that more Commercial is proposed in the PZC map than just on
those two parcels.
Mr. Gerber responded that a combination of the two maps is possible. He is interested
in encouraging pedestrian traffic, and he believes more Commercial in that one area
would be appropriate.
Vice Mayor Salay inquired if he could support that map with the exception of those two
parcels immediately to the right.
Mr. Gerber responded affirmatively.
Mayor Lecklider stated that his concern is the fact that there would be Residential
immediately adjacent to the Commercial. A better adjacent neighbor would be Office.
There was also an earlier conversation about the issue of sexually- oriented businesses.
He is not sure whether that was ultimately resolved.
Vice Mayor Salay noted that it was not resolved.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher asked how it would be resolved.
Mr. Smith responded that is being studied in the context of the entire City. Under the
law, there must be some designated areas for this use. However, it can't be near
schools or day care centers. They are working on that issue.
Vice Mayor Salay stated that at this point, as the Code is written, if the area is BSC
Commercial, that is a permitted use by right.
Mr. Smith stated that is a Conditional use.
Mayor Lecklider stated that it would be a Conditional use, but if he were looking at these
maps for a desirable place to live in Dublin, there is one strip of BSC Residential that
would not be attractive. He would not want to live next to BSC Commercial.
Mrs. Boring stated that she understood the intent was to inform developers about what
the City desires so that they would build it. She understood that the City was going to
allow higher densities and provide a Code to follow. Then, the City began to consider all
the items the developers didn't support, thereby lowering the standards. If the developer
proposes exactly what is required, PZC reviews it and the public reviews it, there should
be no discretion in regard to whether or not it would be approved. However, if there are
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various options for the developer, then they can negotiate. If the applicant comes in
and wants to request changes from this Code, then the application should be
disapproved immediately. The Code refers to "required viewing body," but that team
would not always be consistent. Also, she is concerned that at some point, the Fire
Department or Police Department might disengage, because there are some things they
would be unlikely to care about.
Mr. Langworthy responded that the reason this step is in the process is that staff
recognizes there are some things that must be decided by the required reviewing body.
Much of the review criteria is very minor, and was included primarily at the request of
the Planning and Zoning Commission, who wanted to allow some degree of
architectural flexibility. To assist with that review process, an architectural consultant will
provide consultation to the Administrative Review Team. That process has been used
with another development and it is working well. He does not recall anything on that list
that is a "deal breaker." He believes most applicants will be able to comply with the
Code or provide something that is entirely appropriate. In those circumstances where
they do not, a process for that has been included, as well, that will permit the proposal
to go to the Planning and Zoning Commission for a waiver. Protections have been built
into the process for both the City and the applicant. This has to be a cooperative
venture. Yes, there will be a Code and Vision, but flexibility will be permitted to the
applicant in some aspects to encourage them to give the City the best product possible.
No Code can address every possible detail.
Mrs. Boring asked who makes the final decision when there is something that is not
compliant with Code.
Mr. Langworthy responded that the required viewing body decides. Some applications
will automatically be reviewed by the Planning and Zoning Commission. Some will be
reviewed by the ART.
Mrs. Boring asked if the project moves forward at the Planning and Zoning
Commission's recommendation, will the process be as quick as envisioned?
Mr. Langworthy responded that, although it could be done in the same amount of time, it
depends on how cooperatively the City can work with the applicant. One piece missing
from the Code -- because it can't be "coded" -- is the work staff does before the
application is formally in the process. A good deal of time is spent prior to the
application being submitted to make sure the application is in compliance with the Code
and anticipates PZC's desires. That process has now been made more certain with
requirements. What is not certain are the minor details intended to be addressed with
flexibility. The intent is to address those in the pre - application process. The issue is
that there is the possibility of working out all those details only to have the application
later reviewed by the PZC, who reverses the actions -- therefore eliminating the
predictability for the applicant. Now, the applicant will not be told what they have to do
until they go before the Planning and Zoning Commission, and PZC decides who will be
the reviewing body. Only then will the applicant learn what the process will be.
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Mrs. Boring stated that is exactly what she does not understand. If the City informs an
applicant that they have to do certain things, and their project meets the Code, how can
the Planning and Zoning Commission then not support it?
Mr. Langworthy responded that he hopes that is the way it works. If the reviewing body
indicates they would prefer it to be some other way, the applicant will probably apply for
the waiver to do so.
Mrs. Boring responded that is her concern. If their project meets the Code
requirements, then how can PZC require changes?
Mr. Langworthy responded that is why he believes the approval should be left with the
Administrative Review Team (ART). If the project meets the Code, the ART should be
able to approve it.
Mr. Gerber inquired what PZC's parameters of authority are with the Basic Plan Review.
Mr. Langworthy responded that the closest comparison would be the Informal Concept
Plan Review. The differences are the public comment component and that no vote
occurs with the current Concept Plan review. Another difference is the level of detail
provided for the Basic Plan Review -- it would be closer to a Preliminary Development
Plan review. The goal is for the PZC to have a comfort level with the project.
Mr. Gerber stated that this process would have two elements — first, an opportunity for
the public to comment, and secondly, an opportunity for PZC to provide some "check
and balance" to the system, to make sure it is consistent with the surrounding area and
its setbacks fit in. However, he doesn't see that role articulated.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher asked if the project plan would be approximately 95% complete
at the point when the Planning Commission has the opportunity to review it and the
public may provide input.
Mr. Langworthy clarified that the plan would be more developed than under a Concept
Plan, but less detailed than a Preliminary Development Plan. He does not know what
the level of completion would be. It could change from project to project, depending on
how far along the applicant is in the development process and what input they want
from the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Mr. Gerber stated that if PZC provides a Basic Plan Review, and PZC allows for public
comments, what does PZC do as a result? Can they set forth conditions?
Mr. Langworthy responded that the way the process is structured at this point, PZC
would provide only review and comment, similar to the Concept Plan review process.
They provide comments for the applicant to consider. However, PZC's comments are
not binding to the ART, although they will not be ignored.
Vice Mayor Salay noted that PZC provides valuable input, and the ART might not be
aware of the interest of the public or a potential purchaser of adjacent property. Such
information would be learned during the PZC informal review process, and when the
application is reviewed by the ART, the applicant would know PZC's and the public's
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concerns. They would likely take those into account to gain the ART's approval,
understanding the parameters that exist in this Code.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher noted that they also have the ability to provide waivers.
Mr. Langworthy clarified that waivers have to be approved by PZC.
Mr. Gerber stated that PZC would not have the authority to direct an applicant to pursue
a waiver on the basis the Commission does not like the plan. ART would have the
option to agree or disagree with PZC's comments.
Mr. Langworthy responded that he is not certain about that. If PZC indicated that the
applicant should consider requesting a waiver because of certain conditions, he
believes the applicant and ART would consider that carefully. A waiver application
would be reviewed by the PZC.
Mayor Lecklider stated that his understanding is that the core values of the community
are reflected in this Code. If the core values are changing with every application, then
this is not a different process. He understood that the underlying concept of this Code
was to be predictable. That is what the City has heard from the development
community for many years, and the appeal of this Code was its predictability. The fact
is, whether it is real or perceived, there is the issue of arbitrariness. His understanding
of a Code like this was that it would eliminate this perception. Council has modified this
Code and tailored it to City standards by adjusting the process to allow for more public
input and PZC involvement. For him it now "begs the question" of what is Council trying
to accomplish here?
Mrs. Boring suggested that Council could adopt the PZC process and monitor it to see if
it provides the results desired. It can always be modified in the future.
Ms. Grigsby stated that the first project taken through this process will receive
significant attention through the process. PZC will receive reports on modifications in
projects that are made, or those not made, and the reason why, in response to their
comments.
Mr. Gerber stated that he believes this Code reflects the City's core values, but under
this Code, it is still possible to build a very unattractive building. He believes in checks
and balances, and the only way that is possible is to have that be the role of a public
body, i.e. the PZC, although it could be done on a very limited basis and in a shortened
process, so it can still achieve the spirit of the intent of this Code.
Mayor Lecklider stated that his response to that would be that the Code is then
defective. If the Code as drafted will permit an ugly building to be constructed, the Code
should be modified before passage. It makes no sense to approve a Code that has such
potential, resulting in the need to create a process similar to the City's traditional
process. His concern is that the City will receive a relatively tepid response to a
process that doesn't appear to be that much different from its existing process. This
land constitutes six percent of the City's overall land mass. There was an article in
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today's newspaper regarding Dublin considering changes to its sign code — the word
used in the description was "persnickety." That is the perception of Dublin, which he
admits he personally contributed to. However, with respect to this corridor, this is only
six percent of the City. Dublin needs to change with the times.
Mr. Gerber agreed. He also is pleased that Dublin has such high standards.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that it is uncertain how the Code will be interpreted and
executed by developers. Only experience will tell. The intention was to create a Code
for this small area of the City with a process whereby the developer should be able to
complete a checklist and have limited changes made. Developers complain about any
city's process, because the process costs money. However, Dublin has been fortunate
to have many developers wanting to do business in Dublin for many years. The high -
end product that results brings them a profit. Developers also use these as prototypes in
other places. PUD processes allowed that opportunity of give and take between staff,
developers and the Planning Commission. Part of that process was to require many,
not insignificant, conditions to gain approval. They often changed the nature of the
project. The developers have been successful in this community. She is concerned
with ensuring the public has a voice in this process. There was a recent example of this
with the development proposed along Brand Road. Had the community not had active,
ongoing engagement in that project, it would have been a significantly different project.
Because the public was able to work with the Planning Commission and the developer,
important transition issues were accommodated. That is the importance of the public's
engagement, and the timing of that is her concern. If the public engagement is too early
in the process, concepts can change dramatically before they become a reality. She
realizes that with this Code, in this location, when the concept or basic plan comes
before the Commission, it will be developed significantly more because of this Code.
Mr. Langworthy concurred. This Code will allow the application to be more significantly
developed when submitted.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher asked if it allows or requires that it be.
Mr. Langworthy responded that it actually requires it to be. Because most of the
requirements are already established, the basic plan will be more complete than a
concept plan submittal.
Vice Mayor Salay added that the building materials and architectural details, already
established to reflect the City's core values, are stated in the Code. The project should
be considerably further along at the basic plan review, which will provide the public a
good sense of the project. She agrees with Council Member Chinnici - Zuercher's
comments concerning the value of public input, based on the experience with the
development considered at Council's last meeting. Public input is good for the
community, and particularly for the neighbors. The Bridge Street Corridor is an area of
the City, which she understood all of Council had agreed would be a place where a
straight zoning code would work. If done right, Council would be comfortable with it,
because Council had a clear vision of what was desired. There is more public
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March 19, 2012
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participation in this administration - recommended process than she first understood, and
she has been persuaded that is a positive. The public and the Planning and Zoning
Commission will have the ability to weigh in. Dublin is proud of the fact that it is in fact
"persnickety" and she hopes this Code reflects that, yet also provides some certainty to
the developers. She wants the development community to be excited about this. This is
a different economic climate than five years ago, based on competition from other
suburbs.
Mr. Gerber responded that if PZC is to have some input at the basic plan review stage,
what is the level of that review? What is their role, what is their authority? He assumes
after that review, PZC is no longer involved, unless there is a waiver needed. He
assumes they will be providing an additional check and balance that the project meets
the community's standards, and perhaps suggesting a condition or two, to ensure that.
The project would then move forward for ART review.
Vice Mayor Salay inquired if he envisions that the ART can disregard PZC's
recommendations. That is not the way Dublin has operated. It seems that the ART
would consider carefully PZC's recommendations.
Mr. Gerber stated that perhaps ART would, but perhaps not. The City has had previous
projects on which staff and PZC had different opinions. It is not an adversarial situation,
however; just a process to have all the views considered.
Vice Mayor Salay inquired if PZC's recommendations should be binding.
Mrs. Boring responded that would be arbitrary, because the applicant has already met
the Code. There are some minor details, which are to be determined by the required
viewing body.
Mr. Gerber noted that ARB or another review body may review the plan, based upon its
location.
Mr. Langworthy stated that ARB will have exactly the same process that they have now.
The ARB process did not change.
Vice Mayor Salay stated that the project review will no longer move from ARB to PZC.
Mr. Langworthy confirmed that is correct. The ARB maintains its authority.
Mayor Lecklider stated that he finds the different perspectives regarding public
involvement interesting. He does not expect the public feedback to come only via
formalized meetings. He expects to receive just as much public feedback outside that
setting. He has already been receiving public feedback regarding the concept of this
process. The City Manager will be a member of the ART, and the public has access to
Council 24/7.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that Council does not have review authority, either. If the
submittal meets the Code, it meets the Code.
Mayor Lecklider responded that he believes Council will be able to have a conversation
with the City Manager, the Planning Director, the Development Director and the
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March 19, 2012
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Planning Commission if needed. Council will have a liaison to the Planning
Commission.
Mr. Gerber stated that some architects have indicated to him that they could develop a
product that would meet every Code requirement and still produce a product Council
would not like. For that reason, he believes some review body should provide a check
and balance review to ensure the development will meet the City's core values.
However, he does not want a 30 -day review, or for the project to be held up with that
review.
Mr. Langworthy asked if he is seeking a more binding review from PZC. He believes
that would depend, first, upon the level of detail provided for the Basic Plan Review, and
then, upon what PZC does with that.
Mr. Gerber responded that he does not want PZC to re- design the project. That should
not be their role.
Ms. Grigsby inquired if most of Council's concern relates to architectural issues. Most
of that information will be available for the Basic Plan Review.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that perhaps the concern is because Council does not yet
yet know what the process is — it's a little more than a Concept Plan Review, but not a
Preliminary Development Plan Review. Until the first case is brought forward, it is hard
to understand the extent of what is being presented and the reality of what the public
and PZC will view and comment on. She also does not understand what the authority
of PZC is under this Code. It appears to her that they have no authority; they will
provide advice only. They are not the binding authority or approval; the ART is.
Vice Mayor Salay inquired if that is similar to ARB's role.
Mr. Langworthy responded that it is more similar to PZC's current role with a Concept
Plan Review. There is no binding element to their review, just advice to the applicant.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that is because the plan will be becoming back to them at
a later date.
Mr. Langworthy responded that maybe the key is somewhere in between — giving a little
more weight to PZC's comments, giving Council more comfort.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that she likes the latter better, that what PZC is given is
actually what is going to happen, that they are given comments closer to the Code.
Mr. Gerber stated that would also give more certainty to the applicant and the public.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that she disagrees with the former comment about less
concern because this area is not adjacent to a $350,000 development. She actually
expects to see, and is excited about, a lot of Residential here. If she is in a Residential
building, then she has a significant interest on what is developing around her. The
same is true if she has invested money in an Office development. She would want
whoever develops next to her to have a great Office development, as well. Similar to
when Duke was constructing buildings around 1 -270 a few years ago -- neighborhoods
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March 19, 2012
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not next to them, but in view of them, wanted to have input into the appearance of the
buildings.
Vice Mayor Salay responded that the difference to her is that this Code and the District
gives certainty to the people who are buying and investing in the area. They will have
been through that process themselves. They will be interested in their neighborhood,
and they should have the ability to weigh in. There will much more certainty than there
was when Dublin was a completely green - fields community. Applicants were coming in
then with 100+ acre PUDs.
Mayor Lecklider inquired if it is possible to draw any comparison to the EAZ zoning
process, in regard to PZC's influence over that process.
Mr. Langworthy responded that PZC will have more influence with the BSC process.
The EAZ is a purely administrative review process. The only involvement PZC has with
that is the waiver process.
Mrs. Boring inquired how many uses are in the EAZ zoning.
Mr. Langworthy responded that there numerous uses, a variety of Residential, Retail
and Commercial.
Mr. McDaniel responded that everyone became more comfortable with the EAZ zoning
because it was more suburban than the way it had been done for decades. The BSC
district is quite different, however, and he would expect Council to be less comfortable
with this than the EAZ.
Mayor Lecklider noted that he only wished to compare the processes.
Mr. McDaniel stated that the original intent for the Bridge Street Corridor was the EAZ
process. Then, it became clear that people wanted public input. That is why the Basic
Plan Review process was added. Would it be helpful if staff came back with a definition
of what the Basic Plan Review would entail? He believes the process could also work if
staff were to take direction from the Basic Plan Review, and execute it. The faith he has
in this Code is that it will condense the time, because that is built into the Code. He
agrees with the public input; that is Dublin's culture. What he does not like, from an
economic development perspective, is that when developers leave the Basic Plan
Review, they do not have clear direction. Then, they will be spending lots of money on
something vague. This Code will take a lot of that uncertainty away. They do differ
from PZC's philosophy in regard to the need for a time frame. If the process goes
beyond 70 days, it's back to the PUD process. If that's the case, then just remain with
the PUD process. If staff can define the Basic Plan Review, then they can take PZC's
directions and still proceed with a timely process. His goal is that this process
accomplish the intent of Council's policy.
Mayor Lecklider stated that he would like to eliminate to the extent possible the
perception of arbitrariness in the process. That is what he thought Council wanted to
achieve with this particular Code. He agrees that the PUD process is largely
responsible for the fine community Dublin is today, and that process remains available
outside this six percent of the City's land mass. However, the PUD process has not
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always led to the best possible outcome. There are some of those projects that, in
hindsight, we would do differently, so it is not a perfect process, either.
Mr. Langworthy responded that part of that is caused by the lack of specificity in the
Code prior to the PUD process.
Mrs. Boring inquired if we now have a Code that provides that specificity, except for a
few details, why should there also be any arbitrary direction.
Mr. Smith responded that it is because the process is not a science. It involves some
human nature to want a little more.
Mrs. Boring inquired if what we are saying is that we don't trust PZC not to negotiate.
Mr. Smith responded that is not what he is saying.
Vice Mayor Salay that it is human nature for the public or perhaps Council to suggest a
little more stone, landscaping, or something else than is required by the Code. That
triggers a back and forth process, which ends up being arbitrary.
Mrs. Boring stated that it is her expectation this would not work that way. If the Code
requires 80% stone and the applicant's plan provides 80% stone, then they should not
be asked for more. She expects everyone to abide by those rules.
Mr. Gerber stated that, as Mr. McDaniel suggested, it would be good to define the Basic
Plan Review. What criteria can PZC review? How binding are their comments? He
believes their review should be to ensure the project is compatible with the surrounding
area, and there is some criteria considered to determine what is compatible with the
surrounding area. Their role is to opine on those areas only. He believes that definition
could be written with some specificity.
Mrs. Boring stated that the difference with a PUD is that the developer wants something
different from the Code, so the City asks for something more, as well — that makes it a
win -win solution. This process should not be compared to that; they are two different
processes. PZC cannot negotiate with this zoning, because it is not a PUD.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher inquired if the only negotiation is with the waiver process.
Mr. Langworthy responded affirmatively.
Mr. Gerber stated that it would be limited to the subject matter of the waiver.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that it would be helpful to have the definition for the Basic
Plan Review, as staff has suggested.
Vice Mayor Salay noted that Ms. Boring seems to be arguing against PZC's
involvement at all, if they can't do anything with the application.
Mrs. Boring stated that what she is saying is that if someone should decide it is
necessary to modify a project that meets Code, that issue should be referred to PZC for
review.
Mr. Langworthy clarified that she is referring to issues other than a waiver.
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Mrs. Boring stated that one phrase that has always bothered her is "generally
consistent." This Code says that all those types of things would be reviewed by the
RRB, which is not yet defined. She believes those things should be forwarded to the
PZC.
Mr. Keenan stated that in addition to the Basic Plan definition, he would also like staff to
provide a description of the range of a waiver, from the broadest form to the most
narrow form. A couple of examples would be helpful. There was an example with the
EAZ Code.
Mr. Gerber inquired if a waiver is required when the applicant wants to do something
outside the Code.
Mr. Langworthy responded that one example of a narrow range might be that the Code
requires 80% of a building material, but the applicant wants to provide 70 %. A wide
range might be that the applicant wants to construct a building type that is not permitted.
In both cases, a waiver must be approved by the PZC. There are criteria in the Code
for evaluating waiver requests. A waiver is the equivalent of a variance.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher stated that with the first example Mr. Langworthy provided, she
expected him to say that ART could make that decision. The second, which is
significantly different than the Code, would go to PZC. What waiver would not go to
PZC, but for which ART would be the approving body.
Mr. Langworthy responded that the Code includes some minimal waivers that the ART
can approve as modifications. They are limited in scope; for instance, a 10 percent
deviation. The encouragement is to follow the Code. If not, a waiver is necessary,
which will involve an additional 28 days in the review process. Following Code is the
first and best option.
Mrs. Boring inquired if a stormwater management plan would be required by this Code.
Mr. Langworthy stated that the Code requires that a stormwater management plan be
provided. Mr. Hammersmith can provide more details.
Mr. Hammersmith stated that currently stormwater management is covered by Chapter
53 of the Codified Ordinances. The way they intended to handle it in the Bridge Street
Corridor was by creating an independent manual for the Corridor itself, which would tie
to Chapter 53. The Code would have to provide ability to do that. It would be handled
by utilizing green infrastructure and sustainable practices. Currently, the City does a lot
of "end of pipe" treatment, regulating rates of runoff to detention ponds. Other methods
would include green infrastructure, regulating volume, permeable pavements, rain
gardens, bio swales and curb inlet basins.
Mrs. Boring stated that it sounds similar to the current practices.
Mr. Hammersmith responded that is correct.
Mrs. Boring inquired why there was the impression by Ms. King that the City would be
discontinuing those.
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Mr. Hammersmith stated that it would probably be helpful to send Ms. King a copy of
the report done by CDM last year on the Bridge Street Corridor.
Council requested that he do so.
Mrs. Boring inquired if public art is addressed in the BSC Code.
Mr. Langworthy stated that they could not require art to be used, so they include a
provision to indicate to developers that the City is interested in ideas for public or private
a rt.
Mrs. Boring inquired if it would be the City's responsibility to encourage more public art,
such as in the City's walkways, to create a pattern.
Ms. Grigsby stated that staff will be looking at how to do public art along pathways and
roadways. We know that the Bridge Street Corridor is an opportunity for public art to
be included in the development.
Mrs. Boring inquired if it is the City's responsibility then.
Ms. Grigsby responded that in part it is. Many developers will want their developments
to include these types of amenities, because it makes their properties more valuable.
Mrs. Boring stated that Council has not asked questions about the Thoroughfare Plan.
Typically, an updated Thoroughfare Plan is approved, as well.
Mr. Hammersmith stated that a road network exhibit was included with the plan. That is
the greatest level of detail currently available.
Mrs. Boring stated that she is concerned about the street that goes through Historic
Dublin. She thought that, at one time, the intent was to loop it around Historic Dublin.
Specifically, where is the southern connector?
Mr. Hammersmith described its proposed path from Village Parkway west across the
river through the Library site, and continuing west.
Vice Mayor Salay noted that the one crossing concerns her, because it appears to be
on top of the Falls.
Mr. Hammersmith responded that it appears that way due to the scale of the diagram. It
is a two -way road. The intent is not to put a bridge over the Falls or destroy the Falls.
Vice Mayor Salay inquired about the possibility of not having that connection.
Mr. Hammersmith responded that it would begin to erode the grid pattern, which
disperses traffic and provides the connectivity intended in the BSC Vision Plan. He
believes it is better to pursue the network, and then work with the parameters to avoid
impacting the Falls. There is room in there to do that. The intersection can be moved
somewhat and the rest of the road swing that direction as well. The details will be
worked out.
Ms. Chinnici - Zuercher inquired at what point this would come to Council for approval.
Mr. Langworthy responded that it would be part of the Community Plan update that is
scheduled to come before Council by the end of the year. He noted that this depiction
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is illustrative, not actual. The intent is to establish a grid of smaller block sizes, so there
are no 1,500 -foot blocks, which are difficult to travel through.
Mr. Hammersmith stated over 50 percent of this drawing would not be shown on the
Thoroughfare Plan. Only major collectors and arterials will be shown, not local streets.
In regard to the stormwater issue, Ms. King was concerned about the extension of
stormwater waivers for the Historic District. That is included in the CDM report, which
Council will receive. It looks at how we would manage stormwater and the net effect of
the proposed densities on stormwater management. The study indicates a two percent
increase in the volume of water that comes down Indian Run, and considers what would
be the effect of doing nothing, allowing the straight release of stormwater into the river.
Mrs. Boring stated that the City granted a stormwater waiver in the Hard Road area.
Considering that and the amount of heavy development on the east side of the river,
what is the impact?
Mr. Hammersmith responded that quality control will require certain methodology to be
in place. That will have an effect on release rates.
Mrs. Boring stated in regard to the Thoroughfare Plan, any roads close to Indian Run
will impact the entire area, including the wildlife and fauna.
Mr. Langworthy responded that is an area near and dear to our hearts.
Mayor Lecklider thanked staff for the information.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:11 p.m.
Clerk of Council