HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-16-2003 Study SessionDublin City Council
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Mayor McCash called the Monday, June 16, 2003 work session of Dublin City Council to
order at 7:00 p.m. in Council Chambers at the Dublin Municipal Building.
Roll Call
Council members present were: Mayor McCash, Vice Mayor Baring, Ms. Salay, Mr.
Lecklider, Mr. Kranstuber, and Ms. Chinnici-Zuercher. Mr. Reiner was absent (excused).
Staff members present were: Ms. Brautigam, Mr. McDaniel, Mr. Hahn and Ms. Heal.
Mr. McDaniel noted that Council had requested this overview of the Dublin soccer
community programs at their March retreat. He then proceeded with a PowerPoint
presentation, copies of which were provided to Council in their packet. He noted that he
formulated the presentation to give a basic understanding of how the soccer program is
operated in Dublin. He will cover the purpose, who is the Dublin soccer community, how it
is organized, what kind of programs it provides, who participates in the programs and what
fees participants pay. In addition, he has included some financial information from various
groups, information about governing boards, the existing DSL agreement, the status of the
proposed revised agreement and staff recommendations.
Soccer programming in Dublin is provided by the Dublin Soccer League (DSL), the Greater
Outerbelt Youth Soccer League (GOYSL), Dublin Select Soccer, Ohio Premier which is a
girls' club and Ohio Football Club which is a bays' club. For many years, Dublin has
recognized DSL as the primary provider of soccer programs in Dublin. There is a tendency
to refer to all of the soccer community as DSL, but in reality that is not the case. DSL
works with the other organizations in providing soccer programming. Generally, these
organizations predominantly provide recreational league soccer and secondly, competitive
youth soccer programs. DSL contributes to the scheduling of soccer, and all organizations
contribute to the set-up of soccer fields, i.e., lighting, equipment, etc. They also provide
additional program related to soccer, such as tournaments, end of season tournaments,
player camps and coach training.
There are 4,000 recreational users in the Dublin community -ranging from U-5 to U-19,
primarily from the Dublin school district. Coaches are volunteer parents in the recreational
programs, and licensed/paid coaches at the competitive levels. Referees are ages 12 and
over and receive training and/or are certified for this service and paid. The soccer
community is volunteer dependent with these exceptions for coaches and referees. DSL
has two full-time staff members.
He then showed a chart demonstrating how the local Dublin leagues fit into the
national/world soccer programming. At the national level, there is the United States Youth
Soccer Association, and under that is the Ohio South Youth Soccer Association of which
the Dublin Soccer League is a part. The Dublin Soccer League includes recreational
soccer, and competitive programs requiring tryouts and higher fees. The competitive
programs are GOYSL, OFC Boys and OP Girls, and Dublin Select falls under the OFC/OP
programs.
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 2
GOYSL is affiliated with the United States Youth Soccer Association, but he is not certain if
they are affiliated with Ohio South. For OFC/OP/Dublin Select, there is an affiliation with
Mid-Ohio Select Soccer League. It is important for the competitive programs to be affiliated
with the local recreational programs such as DSL.
There is a DSL Board comprised of various representatives from these organizations. DSL
has an executive director who oversees recreational programming. The City's interest is in
providing recreational programming, but there is a more competitive aspect to the programs
in the other areas. All are 501-C-3 organizations and stand alone, independent of the
DSL. There is a support relationship with DSL far these competitive groups because of
scheduling of City fields and the need for coordination.
He then described the programming and the increasing skill levels and casts as players
move into the higher levels of competitive soccer. Recreational soccer includes the Dublin
Soccer League for under 5 through under 12, the Middle School Soccer Association for
under 15, and the ce-ed High School Soccer Association for under 19. For the GOYSL
program, there is the U8 and U9 -requiring tryouts and a higher commitment level. For
Dublin Select Soccer, U10 to U14, tryouts are required and greater expense. For Ohio FC
and Ohio Premier, these are more elite and competitive and begin at the U9 level and go to
the U19 level. All of these programs are available to accommodate the different skill levels
and commitment desired.
In terms of participant demographics, in the spring of 2003 there were 3,995 participants;
3,069 or 77 percent were recreation; 339 or 8 percent were GOYSL and Dublin Select; and
587 or 15 percent were Ohio FC and Ohio Premier. In the recreation league, 99 percent
are Dublin School district; in GOYSL and Dublin Select there is 100 percent Dublin School
district; and in Ohio FC and Ohio Premier, 73 percent are Dublin School district. He
summarized that overall, 77 percent are recreational participants and 23 percent are in the
competitive programs.
Regarding age levels for recreational programs, U5 has 230 participants; U6 to U12 has
2,553; MSSA U15 has 160; HSSA U19 has 126. For competitive programs, GOYSL has
87 in U8 and U9; Dublin Select has 251 in U9 plus; Ohio Premier has 248 in U9 plus; Ohio
Football has 339 in U9 plus.
Mr. Kranstuber asked why GOYSL is for U8 and U9 only.
Mr. McDaniel responded that in Dublin, GOYLS provides only U8 and U9; above that, for
U10 to U14, it moves to Dublin Select. He is not sure why this is the case. Dublin Select is
more costly than GOYSL. GOYSL may have other age group programming in other
communities, but not in Dublin.
Mr. Kranstuber asked if Ohio Premier and Ohio Football Club are exclusive to Dublin.
Mr. McDaniel responded that Ohio Premier and Ohio Football Club are both based in
Dublin.
Mr. McDaniel then provided a breakdown of OFC and OP, including Dublin Select to show
the Dublin School district and non-Dublin School district participants.
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Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 3
Mayor McCash summarized that at the competitive levels, the information shows that 64
and 66 percent of the participants in the U15-19 programs are non-Dublin School District
residents.
Ms. Salay painted out that this might relate to the rule which prohibits teams from playing
together who play at the high school level.
Mr. McDaniel agreed, noting that at this level of freshman through senior high school there
are restrictions regarding off-season play together.
Ms. Salay believes that the rule is a maximum of five high school soccer team members
can play on the same soccer team off-season. Therefore, if a team is comprised of 15,
only one-third can be from the school team. Perhaps this problem will lessen when there
are three high school teams in Dublin.
Mr. Kranstuber noted that the percentage of non Dublin School District still seems high,
even if there is such a rule. As a Dublin taxpayer, he would have concerns about
Westerville residents using the fields owned by the City and not paying fees for using them
Mrs. Boring asked how summer leagues are handled for high school teams if there is such
a rule in place. Why is this situation different?
Mr. McDaniel responded that more research would be needed to respond to this.
Mr. Kranstuber stated that the issue remains that the vast majority of these competitive
team members do not live in Dublin, and the question is whether they should be paying a
fee to the City to use the fields. For other sports, such as swimming, the fees are
graduated on the basis of residency, school district residency, and non-residency.
Mr. McDaniel commented that there are also Dublin residents who play in other
communities, sa this would be a consideration.
Mayor McCash asked about the percentage of time allocated on Dublin fields to the
OFC/OP in the 15-19 age group versus the recreational teams?
Mr. McDaniel responded that he does not have this information, but common sense would
indicate that the competitive groups use the fields at a higher rate than the general
recreation just because of their competitive level, their practice time amount and
tournament play.
Mr. Kranstuber asked in regard to a revised agreement with DSL, whether staff has
analyzed this on the basis of percentages of field use by non-resident, non-Dublin School
District participants? If two-thirds of the participants are non-Dublin, does a field rental rate
come into play?
Mr. McDaniel stated that there has been some discussion regarding field rentals in the cost
of services study, but this has not been implemented.
Mr. Kranstuber noted that when Buckeye swim team rented lanes for practice at the DCRC,
a rate for rental was established. This should be a consideration in terms of the high
number of non-Dublin participants.
Mr. McDaniel stated that in the existing agreement with DSL, the City has the right to
impose fees. It has been considered, but not acted upon. He added that in 199811999, the
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Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 4
same issue of percentages of non-Dublin participants in the U15 to U19 level was studied.
In terms of the overall percentage of the entire soccer participants, the number has not
changed since that time. About 6.5 percent of participants are non-residents, as was the
case in 1998!1999.
Ms. Chinnici-Zuercher stated that this seems to be a matter of "mixing apples and
oranges." The recreational program is generally the Dore of what government wants to
provide to its residents. In any recreational sport, there will be large numbers of
participants under the age of 12. After that age, the sports are more selective. The rule
regarding off-season participation seems to be important to understand, as this is affecting
the percentages.
Mr. Lecklider noted that a club team could be comprised of boys and girls from many high
schools in a variety of numbers. In theory, they could be from as many as 15 or 16 high
schools. In terms of the hypothetical of charging rent for the fields, his interpretation of the
present agreement is that this will not happen because there is essentially an existing
monopoly. That is not an option under the existing agreement. The rules about the
number of high school players on a team are not unique to OP or OFC. To his knowledge,
this occurs across Central Ohio.
Mr. Lecklider also noted that there must be an affiliation with a recreational program for the
clubs to come under the umbrella of the state and national organizations. An important
distinction for Dublin is that the City provides the fields without charge; in other areas, clubs
may have mortgages on land or they may pay fees to a City for the rental of fields.
Mr. McDaniel continued, stating that there are three tournaments held each year -the
Charity Cup, the Ohio Premier and the Ohio FC Nike Cup. Another tournament held in the
past, the Jarosi Tournament, is being phased out. The DCVB approached staff a couple of
years ago regarding this Tournament because of their concern that it used Dublin fields, yet
was Westerville-based and most of the hotel revenue was going to Worthington and/or
Westerville, not to Dublin. DSL understood the issues raised and is now phasing it out. He
noted that the economic impact dollars of the Tournaments listed are provided by the
DCV B.
The additional programs provided in conjunction with rec and competitive programs are
multiple camp opportunities for all abilities, from rec to advanced; and multiple training
opportunities for coaches.
Soccer program fees are outlined for the various programs. Generally speaking, recreation
programming runs $75 to $110 per year, which includes fall and spring participation. Far
GOYSL, the fees are $225; Dublin Select fees are $350; for OPlOFC, the fees run from
$800 to $1,200. The City has not focused on the level of these fees; participants have
been given a choice in terms of the commitment level desired. In reviewing fees for other
communities, the recreation program fees are somewhat higher. Staff is conducting a
survey of Columbus suburbs and similar cities in Ohio (Hilliard, Worthington, Westerville,
Grove City, Centerville and Kettering) to learn about how they provide soccer programming.
The information is not ready at this time due to some difficulty in securing responses.
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Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 5
Mr. Lecklider noted in regard to the club soccer fees, that the OP/OFC fees are somewhat
misleading. For the U13 level, his experience is that the fee is $1,400 per year which is
$1,100 plus an option for raising the additional fees of $300 by fundraising. In addition,
there are uniform costs of $200 plus. However, that is maybe not out of line with other
clubs in Central Ohio. Truly, the play at this level is $1,400 per year, plus travel and
uniforms.
Ms. Chinnici-Zuercher stated that there are many answers still needed about the costs.
However, these are personal choices families make to pursue the sport at these higher
levels. The difference here is if the participants do not pay these fees, is the suggestion
that the government pay them?
Mrs. Boring noted that the issue goes back to the fields and how they are scheduled, and
whether these groups should be charged a fee.
Ms. Chinnici-Zuercher responded that the key is whether the fields are provided at the
expense of the needs of the general recreational program.
Mr. McDaniel stated that staff's focus has always been on the recreational program and
ensuring that it will not suffer at the expense of the competitive programs. DSL also
understands that the City owns the fields, and while there is a strong relationships with DSL
in terms of maintenance and they have done an excellent job of scheduling to
accommodate recreation, there may be issues among the competitive programs. The
City's focus is on general recreation programs. He has not heard that the recreation
program has suffered in anyway.
Mr. Lecklider painted out that he is not offering an opinion on the fees being high or low, but
rather just pointing out the accurate figures.
Mayor McCash noted that in reviewing the program descriptions and related costs, there is
a $125 difference between the GOYSL and the Dublin Select programs. Is the select
program used as a funding mechanism for the elite program?
Mr. McDaniel stated that he does not know the answer to this question. It does seem to be
a personal choice in terms of participation level.
Mr. Kranstuber asked if there is a separation between the various levels so that one level is
not subsidizing another. How do they assess the costs for participation?
Mr. McDaniel stated that this is a question far DSL and GOYSL.
Mr. Kranstuber stated that many a-mails have indicated that some groups are being
favored or discriminated against. Therefore, the question of where the funds are filtered is
an important one.
Mr. Lecklider stated that he believes that there is a "wall" between the GOYS L, the Dublin
Select and the OP/OFC. Some in the audience can address this. Dublin Select is provided
with certain training opportunities by the OP/OFC staff that are not available to the GOYSL
group.
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Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 6
Mr. Kranstuber stated that his concern would be that the recreational program monies are
being used to subsidize the select programs. He would like to see more of a breakdown of
the fees for participants.
Mr. McDaniel stated that referees are paid, there are some materials costs, lining of fields,
equipment, etc. for the recreational programs. The 990 tax forms have a lot of this
information.
Mr. Kranstuber stated that he is not presuming anything, but when the issues are brought
up, he wants to be able to respond.
Mr. McDaniel continued with the presentation. He agreed that there are other
commitments to be made via fundraising, so perhaps this should be added to the fees
listed. He showed the DSL Financial summary and pointed out that it reflects a $306,000
revenue operation. The OP is a $350,000 revenue operation and the OFC is a $275,000
revenue operation. A significant amount of the budgets are allocated for wages for
coaches and referees.
Mr. Lecklider noted that it appears that 20 percent of the income is from fundraising
Mr. McDaniel noted that a question was asked by Council about the amount of hotel/motel
tax grant funding provided to DSL. The slide shows that from 1993 through 2003, the total
was $48,850 for bleachers and soccer goals. He added that from 1991 through 2004, DYA
has been given grants of $623,238 for improvements made to the fields in Dublin.
Afield fund was instituted by the soccer community in 2000 as a result of a discussion
about the soccer community bringing money to the table when seeking hotel/motel grants.
At the time, different concepts for this fund raising were discussed -tournaments,
concession sales, buying pavers, etc. The DSL's $10 participant fee per year was
instituted in the spring of 2000 toward the goal of contributing to the community's field
development and infrastructure.
Mr. Lecklider asked if there have been any expenditures from this fund.
Mr. McDaniel stated that there has not. DSL has held off on any expenditures pending
decisions on the proposals under study, such as the one from MOSSL.
Mr. Kranstuber asked if DYA does something similar.
Mr. McDaniel stated that he believes DYA has done some matching of grant monies.
Mr. Kranstuber recalled that DYA has purchased fertilizer and built dugouts in the past
years.
Mr. McDaniel stated that DSL does contribute toward field maintenance, lines fields, set up,
etc.
Mr. Lecklider commented that in light of the recent hotel/motel tax grant applications and
discussion about concession stands at Darree Fields, he was surprised to hear of the
existence of this fund. Perhaps this fund could be used for these type of items.
Mr. Kranstuber responded that the DYA bed tax grants have always been used for capital
improvements.
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 7
Mr. McDaniel stated that the members of the governing board of DSL serve two-year terms
and each member has one vote. The composition is outlined on the slide {materials
attached). In response to Council's suggestion of City representation on the Board, DSL
has provided for that in their bylaws and approved that addition. If a vacancy occurs during
a two-year term, a replacement is appointed by the Board.
Mr. McDaniel pointed out that the City of Dublin staff has attended the DSL Board
meetings, but has not voted at this point. Council will likely want to make the appointment
of a representative to the DSL Board.
Mayor McCash summarized that there are now 14 Board members, including the four
officers and each has one vote. However, it is possible that the recreational programs
would have very little influence in voting if the officers represent the various select clubs. It
seems that DSL is somewhat of a "shell" board for OP/OFC, based on the board
representation.
Discussion followed about the composition of the Board.
Ms. Salay noted that, with more involvement in soccer at the higher levels, it is only natural
that the parents will seek involvement in the Board. People choose to volunteer their time
because they care and have an investment in the program with their children.
Mr. Lecklider commented that it would be helpful to understand how members are
nominated to the Board and to the officer positions.
Ms. Brautigam clarified that the charge to staff was to provide Council with factual
information about how soccer is operated in the Dublin community. Perhaps those in
attendance from the soccer community can offer additional information in response to
Council's questions.
Mr. Kranstuber reiterated that Council's interest is in being accountable to the citizens who
have raised questions about the soccer programs.
Mr. McDaniel noted that the soccer community and DSL operated with the City under a
handshake arrangement for many years. In 1998, the arrangement was somewhat
formalized with a goal of having something in writing to indicate the DSL's and the City's
responsibilities. It was also intended to recognize that DSL is the primary and single
source provider of recreational soccer programming in Dublin and the Dublin School
District. The City's desire is not to replicate these services due to a finite resource of fields.
The desire is not to create a monopoly, as some have indicated. He noted that DSL is
given the blanket permits for scheduling of soccer fields at Avery and Darree Fields for
recreational programming. DSL also schedules the competitive teams at these fields. A
similar arrangement is done with DYAfor baseball. The City has a policy in regard to
resting the soccer fields and DSL has cooperated in this. The City maintains the fields in
playable and safe condition. The City recognizes the agreement regarding the north
concession stand. The City wanted to formalize the agreement to indicate that it has no
liability for conduct of DSL's employees, agents, etc.
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 8
DSL responsibilities are to apply for the blanket permit; attend the diamond "divvy-up";
provide the goals, nets and other equipment and lining of the fields; provide the coaches,
referees and other necessary personnel; and recognize the concession stand agreement in
place. DLS responsibilities also include providing proof of certification; certified in a not-
for-profit status; proof of liability insurance; and the City wanted the right to review their
annual tax statements. DSL also assumes responsibilities of those working for them or
volunteering for them.
DSL can have camps and tournaments as part of the overall recreational programming.
These are programmed into the general field divvy up process. If other parties are
involved, they need to provide what is needed to run the camps/tournaments and have
appropriate insurance.
For permits, Rec Services conducts the diamond divvy up process, and DSL is given a
blanket permit for Avery and Darree fields during soccer season. Other permit requests for
use during DS L's blanket time will be jointly reviewed between the City and DSL. Other
users must meet acceptable standards, and the City is the final authority for all field
permits/use .
Mayor McCash noted that he understands trying to coordinate the use of the field itself, but
in Item F(4), it states any permittee who may be granted a permit for the purpose of
providing like ar similar programming must meet criteria jointly established by the City and
DSL. Why would DSL be reviewing someone's standards? DSL is supposed to coordinate
only the programming of the fields.
Mr. McDaniel responded that the intent is to rely upon DSL's expertise about whether the
credentials are in place for the other teams who seek use of the fields. He added that the
City is trying to accommodate a lot of providers and therefore tries to schedule as much as
possible to meet everyone's needs.
Mayor McCash stated that if a field is empty, however, it would not preclude a group from
using the field without scheduling in advance. Is this problematic if not scheduled through
DSL?
Mr. McDaniel stated that if a scheduled group shows up for a game, it would take
precedence over the pick-up game.
Ms. Salay asked where the City is in terms of meeting needs for fields. With 32,000
residents, and recreational and club programming, are there a lot of residual fields with time
available?
Mr. McDaniel stated that future needs will be addressed in a separate session. There are
not many unscheduled fields at this time, especially during prime soccer season.
He noted that there is a fee process in place -fees can be imposed and can also be
waived. Fees, if imposed, would be waived for recreational programs. There is also the
ability to impose fees on tournaments, camps and other programs. The City reserves the
right to review DSL's fees and to evaluate this agreement in light of such fees. The
renewal is intended to be automatic unless stated otherwise. He added that the City is the
owner of the fields and therefore holds the "trump cards." DSL is respectful of that fact and
works with the City on care and maintenance of the fields. The revised DSL agreement is
still under review, and negotiations are ongoing.
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Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 9
He noted the following recommendationsfrcm staff:
1} Continue to embrace the recreational soccer program provided by DSL and
work to enhance the partnership.
2) Pursue restructuring of the DSL board in order to ensure balanced
representation and to provide the City a more meaningful board representation.
He added that staff is really recommending discussion of this matter, as the board has a
large number of representatives and the City needs to have a level of participation.
Perhaps there is a need for a youth athletics board to bring all youth athletics under one
board -soccer, lacrosse, baseball, etc.
Ms. Salay noted that she had a similar suggestion from someone in the community -
bringingall of the youth athletic groups under one umbrella. Why are DYA and DSL
separate groups?
Jim Link stated that DSL evolved separately. DYA began in 1956 as a baseball
organization. Soccer was always separate from DYA, according to any records he is aware
of.
Mr. McDaniel summarized that, in any case, the oversight board for DSL is an excellent
group and works hard for the community. DYA has also provided an excellent service to
the community.
3) Continue to develop the new agreement as a joint agreement, including the
recreational and competitive program soccer providers. The present agreement
is with DSL. Perhaps it should be broader and include DYA. All of this relates
to the issue of how many teams are enough, what levels are provided, and what
is the City's role in all of this. Once these are defined, a joint agreement is to be
developed.
4) Recognize that competitive soccer is part of the recreational soccer program
and define its role. If it is accepted as an extension of recreational soccer, what
is its role?
5) Review as part of a revised "board" process, the competitive soccer programs.
6) Institute a grievancelappeal process from the DSL Board to the City. Of course,
there is always the option to contact a Council Member.
7) Set additional Council time aside to review future long-term field needs -soccer,
baseball, lacrosse, football, etc.
8) Review MOSSL proposal again in light of long term field needs.
Mayor McCash asked about the relationship between MOSSL, GOYSL, OP, OFC and
Dublin Select. Who does OP and OFC fall under? It appears from the chart that they are
part of MOSSL.
Mr. McDaniel stated that they are affiliated with MOSSL. MOSSL is affiliated with these
associations at the national and local level. Whatever is done with the MOSSL proposal
must take into consideration ensuring that the GOYSL recreational programs have fields to
play on.
Mr. McDaniel stated that MOSSL has offered to withdraw the proposal if it is not acceptable
or is causing too many problems. He has encouraged them not to do that at this paint. He
is hopeful that all of the groups will benefit in some fashion from the MOSSL proposal.
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Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 10
Mayor McCash invited public testimony and asked that each person limit his or her
testimony to five minutes or under so that everyone can participate.
Mike Scoliere, 4603 Gwynedd Court, Dublin, OH 43016 noted that he a resident with three
children ages 12, 9 and 5. He is president of Ohio Premier Girls Soccer Club. The true
name of the club is the "Ohio Premier Girls Soccer Club of Dublin, Ohio, Inc." A question
which arose tonight related to high school teams and restrictions. Under Ohio high school
rules, only five of the same team members can play on the high school team and club
team. At the higher age groups for girls, 15 and up, there is more travel and less
participants than in the younger groups. Therefore they have to go outside of Dublin to
bring in more players. Otherwise, the Dublin girls would choose to play for teams in other
communities. Next year, they will field two teams all the way through age 14. The goal is
to eventually have two teams at the older age group level. He added in regard to use of the
fields by the older teams, that the 15 and up teams do not play with their club teams but
rather with their high school teams. So in the fall, the Dublin fields are not used by the club
teams. Typically, they like to train at the elementary schools or the neighborhood parks.
He summarized that apparently they have not done a good job of educating Council on the
things they do and offer to Dublin. He will look for future opportunities to bring this
information to Council.
Mr. Kranstuber stated that he would hope that the eventual goal for the club teams is to
have all Dublin players on the teams. With three high schools, that would theoretically be
possible.
Mr. Scoliere responded that the level of play for 15 and above at Ohio Premier is far above
the level of high school play. They are at the college level. They expect that as the
community grows, there will be more Dublin players at the higher levels.
Mr. Kranstuber stated that in recognition of the free fields and resources, it would be
desirable to have as many Dublin residents as possible.
Mr. Scoliere stated that he will send their recent survey results to Council via a-mail.
Mitch Coffman, 3581 Jenmar Court stated that he is a concerned parent who has three
children participating in recreational select soccer. He attended the tryouts and also
represents other parents tonight. More than 20 families have contacted him regarding the
U9 and U12 tryouts. The process was confusing and heartbreaking. Communication by
the trainers was discouraged. Trainers wanted commitment to the premier league without
discussions. Parents were scrambling to get to whom they knew so they could get their
kids where they needed to be. He received a call from a trainer explaining that his child
was placed on a particular team and why, however the trainer did not know his child based
on the description. There is an inability to contact parents within the guidelines established.
With select trainers, they were to contact parents within three days; but by day 7, he had to
place calls regarding his son's status. He still has no formal statement from the trainers.
Many children in the U9 tryouts were not watched during trials. It appears there was a pre-
selection of "A" and "B" team members. Both U9 and U12 trials were confusing. The
children's interests are not at heart, they lack organization, process and communication.
Panicked parents tried to understand the decision process. He wanted his children to play
in Dublin, but they were forced to go elsewhere. People are afraid to criticize because it
will affect their future treatment. A significant number of parents are concerned about the
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Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 11
conduct, the unfair treatment, and feel that their children will be blacklisted from future trials
in Dublin. He has taken his children to another community for higher-level sower. He
noted that his children were told by the trainers that they would be measured during the
two-day tryout based on the following criteria: ability to play position, passing,
demonstrated understanding of game, communication with other players on the field and
ball handling ability. The trainer who called him indicated that the criteria were instead size,
speed and the ability to dribble. So the children trying out were lied to and unfairly
discriminated against. He provided many other examples of the lack of methodology,
procedures and process.
He is calling for an audit by City Council. There should be an independent review of the
program and assessment. The scope of the review should be assembled by City Council,
the DSL and the parents, and the results of the review should come back. Due to the
substantial monies involved, there should be an RFP and competitive bidding process.
AI Daum, 7628 Tonti Drive North stated that he is President of the DSL board. He noted in
regard to board structure, that out of 15 listed, nine positions are GOYSL related. If
anything, GOYSL is overly represented on the Board. In the last year, DSL has initiated a
U5 program for recreational programming and a free clinic for rec coaches. The rec
programs are not being shortchanged in any way. Both the rec and the select programs
are needed and are dependent upon each other. A club in Pickerington being initiated is
modeled after the DSL multiprogramming. At the national organization level, they have
criticized coaches more interested in winning than in training at the younger ages. As a
historic note, DSL has been interested in eliminating the GOYLS program due to the fact it
was parent-based and focused and not benefiting the kids. Centerville's program has gone
from multi-club to one club and has a similar concept to Dublin's. A document from the
national association emphasizes the importance of training versus winning. Many children
leave soccer because the parent coach is more interested in winning than in training the
players. Serving on the DSL Board for 9 years, he has worked with Dublin's staff and they
are good people. He has lived in this community since 1978 and would do nothing except
that which is in the best interests of everyone.
Mr. Lecklider asked for clarification about the comments about GOYSL. His experience
was far different.
Mayor McCash asked why there would be a need to eliminate GOYSL by DSL?
Mr. Daum stated that many communities use GOYSL as a prime offering, and in Dublin it is
not. There are a lot of high quality club teams in Dublin. The real issue is about training.
Mayor McCash stated that he hears a recurring theme about winning with the club teams,
not training.
Mr. Daum stated that he wants the youth to have the best experience possible so that they
can enjoy soccer. They offer professional training for the recreational programming which
will make the game more enjoyable.
Mr. Kranstuber stated that GOYSL was touted as a nice offering, with less competitive
teams, an alternative for a cheaper experience.
Craig Kasper, 6431 Newgrange Drive thanked Mr. McDaniel for the excellent presentation
regarding many confusing issues. He has served on the Board for 9 years, most recently
as President. There are 4,000 participants, 80 percent of whom are recreational players.
He feels very strongly that the recreation program has not been compromised in any way
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 12
by the competitive programs. They attempted to integrate programs from recreation
through the select club teams. The premise is that recreation moves from the lower, to
middle and upper tiers. The goal is a continuum of program that meets the various levels
of costs, competition, capability and commitment. GOYSL and Dublin Select Soccer are
the middle tier programs - GOYSL does U8 and 9, and Select does the age groups above
that. For U11, groups have gone to the MOSSL league which has a lot more teams and
more communities. It does involve higher fees and more travel. The goal is to try to
accommodate as many needs as possible. GOYSL was faltering in the older age groups
due to the smaller number of teams and less competition, so a decision was made to take
teams to MOSSL. The question now is whether a fourth program is needed. In terms of
fees, MOSSL has $125 more in fees versus GOYSL because MOSSL fees include carding,
coaches, higher referee fees, administrative fees to Ohia Premier and Ohio FC, and
training fees. In regard to the Board, the training coordinator has nothing to do with OP and
OFC. Ohio Premier and Ohio FC is helping to train rec participants, but the training
coordinator is on the board to provide training for coaches, kids, and is a newly appointed
position. In terms of the Board representation, Dublin Charity Cup is a separate entity from
OP and Ohio FC. His predecessor spoke with Mr. McDaniel about field needs several
years ago. They are holding the $156,000 in funds pending a favorable decision by
Council to expand Darree Fields. They want to partner with the City in this. Field fees are
paid by every participant at all levels. The expanded fields are needed and they are
hopeful that the issues can be resolved and that the future needs of the soccer community
can be met.
Mr. Kranstuber noted that Mr. Daum talked about eliminating GOYSL, but Mr. Kasper has
indicated that GOYSL and MOSSL are the middle tier.
Mr. Kasper stated that these are both leagues in which teams play. They have fees of
$250 versus $325.
Mayor McCash asked about the age groups for the Charity Cup.
Mr. Kasper responded that it is U9 to U14.
Mayor McCash asked if the U9 GOYSL plays in the Charity Cup.
Mr. Kasper responded that they play only under special circumstances. They would have
to be carded teams to participate in the Charity Cup. MOSSL League participants already
have cards, but GOYSL does not require cards and so they have to obtain a card from
Ohio South Youth Soccer Association.
Mrs. Boring stated that if a player is in the U10-14 category, wants a higher level of
competition and is willing to pay the costs, does he have to ga through a process?
Mr. Kasper responded that he/she must tryout for the more competitive teams.
Mrs. Boring commented that the descriptions are a little misleading.
Jim Bishop, 5458 Haverhill Drive, Dublin stated that he has served for years on other
athletic boards, such as swim teams, and he has now been a member of the DSL Board for
6 years. He has coached 12 different teams in recreational and GOYSL soccer. His son
now plays in another community. He is thankful for the opportunities his family has had
with the recreational soccer programs in Dublin. He believes that the heart of the a-mails
relates to people who want to coach their own teams in Dublin. He believes in the one club
system. Many "shots" have been taken at the clubs, both in the a-mails and comments.
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 13
The accusations deserve investigation. He urges Council to become involved and discuss
the issues with them. They will provide as much information as Council requests.
Ms. Chinnici-Zuercher asked why his child plays in a different community.
Mr. Bishop responded that his son was a U11 player with Ohio FC. Concerned that he
would not be selected far a higher team, he tried out for an Eagle's Club and made the
second team. His son is very happy playing with his club and does not want to switch at
this time. He added that DSL has to limit their programs to a point. They made a choice to
create the Dublin Select program at the expense of GOYSL. There was a demand for the
select programs, and not enough demand to justify both. This spring, they are looking at
the probability of one U8 girls' team, and 2-3 boys' teams in GOYSL.
Bob Cohn, 5664 Lochbroom Circle, Dublin stated that he has resided in Dublin since 1983
and has been very involved in the soccer program as a player, referred, coach with Ohio
FC. He has three children -one in college, one in high school and one aged 9 and all have
had wonderful experiences with club soccer. He is on the Board of Ohio FC and has been
affiliated with a club through the Tournament sponsored in Dublin on an annual basis. He
functions as a Tournament Director. The President of the club is out of town on business
and asked that he represent them tonight. He is surprised that the impression tonight is
that there is something very negative and terrible about sower at the club level. Frankly,
the club program at the highest competitive level, in conjunction with the recreation
program, in working to forge a partnership there with a transition of multiple levels -age
groups, experience levels and capability, financial needs, travel commitments due to
multiple sports -can find an opportunity within the existing structure to find their own level
of play. There are tradeoffs -some have children in multiple sports and cannot afford the
travel expenses. For them, the Dublin Select teams are a great alternative within the
existing framework. By the same token, Ohio FC as a highly competitive program is also
involved in community programs and gives back to the community. Many are volunteers
foregoing any salaries offered to allow those with financial hardship to play. Millions are
returned to the community by bringing hundreds of teams, thousands of players and
parents to the community. He noted that perhaps they are guilty of not mounting an equal
campaign of a-mails from those who are very satisfied with the program and the
opportunities it provides. Their goals involve the kids who have incredible training
opportunities to make them the best they can be. There is a high cost for the program and
fees must be charged to cover the professional trainers. Those trainers' times are donated
back to the community in the rec programs -where coaches work with the children in the
community at no cost. They look fonnrard to a long relationship with the City of Dublin. He
encouraged anyone to contact him and to visit Avery Park to observe what they do. He
also invited any Council Members to attend the Board meetings to see firsthand what they
are doing to promote soccer, promote the City of Dublin, and to make the kids the best they
can be, providing very positive experiences in a widely recognized, highly reputed program.
Ms. Chinnici-Zuercher responded to his comment about his impression of tonight's
meeting. Her questions are directed toward gathering sufficient information. As an elected
official and because this is a program under the auspices of government, it is Council's job
to understand the complexity of it and how it is being operated. When a decision is needed
about fees, structures, fields, etc., she wants to be able to make an informed decision.
Council has had discussion about the a-mails they have received, most of which Council is
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 14
not in a position to respond to. There is concern about that being a vehicle of
communication, and therefore it was suggested that a work session be held on this topic. It
should not be interpreted as any type of vendetta against the DSL or any other group.
Mr. Cohn stated that her point is valid, but in looking at the slides, a comment was made
that based upon the representation on the DSL Board, it appeared that the OP and Ohio
FC have vast control over the DSL programs. Quite the contrary is true - if the clubs
controlled everything, there would have been a lot more complaints. The fact remains that
the club teams' influence an the DSL is limited -they have only one seat; they interact
closely with them because of the need and obligation as a community organization; and in
the final analysis, the key issue to remember is that sometimes a vocal minority does not
speak for the vast majority.
Mr. Kranstuber stated that as a Council or Board member, it is always important to analyze
such comments. There is no agenda in this -the questions from Council are meant to
gather information so that they can respond to citizens who have questions about the DSL
Board, funding, or whatever the issue may be. Council's jab is simply oversight.
Mayor McCash stated that he has no experience with soccer, as his children do not play
soccer. He is trying to understand the issues raised in the e-mails.
Mr. Cohn stated that he understands that all issues will not be resolved tonight, but he
committed to provide Council with the schedules of training and games in the fall so that
they can observe first hand the operations of the leagues. Any information that Council
desires can be provided.
Ed Ostrowski, 5702 Southby Court noted that he is current chair of PRAC and is a Dublin
Soccer League trustee. He has served on DSL for 4 years and on PRAC for 5.
Regardless of the debate, it is a virtual certainty that Dublin needs more fields -whether
DSL operates them, or the City or other clubs -there must be additional capital monies
allocated toward field development. The competition among various sports for green space
is very keen -and he has safety concerns with young soccer teams playing on a field next
to an older lacrosse team. It is important to have more fields developed, and DSL has a
proposal before Council to make this happen. They would like to partner with the City on
this, using their field seed money. The need must be addressed.
In regard to the DSL Board structure, he agrees that a board of 14-15 is unwieldy. A wide
range of views is represented, and he does not believe there is a predisposition favoring
club soccer. There is always room for improvement, and they would welcome the City's
expertise in structuring the board to better represent the interests of the community. He
believes that many of the concerns come from a small minority of the citizens. Only two
percent of program participants are in the GOYSL league. With over 3,000 participants in
recreation programs who are very satisfied, they believe the program is running well.
DSL looked closely at the GOYLS program and the Dublin Select program, because a
parent-coached team has a lot of ownership and investment by the adult who runs it.
Sometimes that adult's investment can exceed that of the kids. One of the things DSL has
tried to do with Dublin Select is to even out those interests. There is room for improvement,
as the program has only been in place for two years.
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 15
He is a firm believer in a continuum of programs from recreational to club and everything in
between. They need parent-coached teams, as the 200 plus parent volunteers make what
DSL does possible. Without them, the programs would fail.
He noted that as a Board member, he is not aware of the content of the a-mails which
Council has received and cannot respond or defend the Board. DSL has grievance
procedures in place and those who have problems should first try to work them out within
the organization. His perception is that the a-mails were very one-sided. He urged
Council to keep in mind that it is often the minority who speak up, even though the majority
is satisfied.
Mayor McCash noted that his understanding is that the a-mails received by Council were
copied to the DSL Board members.
Mr. Ostrowski stated that an a-mail sent today was copied to the DSL Board. If necessary,
they can have a Board member respond to the e-mails. It was disturbing to listen to Mr.
Coffman's description of tryouts. Tryouts are stressful for everyone, and if half of what he
said is true, a lot of work is needed on the tryout process. The programs are not perfect;
they are run by volunteers and serve 4,000 kids. Part of the reason they moved to the
select programs and clubs is a recognition that the program is too large for volunteers to
handle. It should be a winning thing for everyone -the kids are involved in soccer at
different levels of commitment. The club programs could not prosper and could not
succeed with college level play teams without the 3,000 participants in the recreational
program.
Ms. Chinnici-Zuercher stated that she is concerned with the comment, "We're just a group
of volunteers who are trying to do good work." They are well funded by people who have
invested their monies and given them the responsibility for managing the program. They
have all chosen to became non-profit organizations and by law they have a responsibility
and a fiduciary one of distribution and acceptance of that money alone, let alone the
children and the care of the children within the mission of the organization. They are more
than a group of volunteers.
Mr. Ostrowski responded that he in no way meant to imply that that was an excuse for poor
performance on their part or lack of monitoring. He reviews the financial statements closely
each month. He read the D&O insurance policy closely and wants to maintain his personal
responsibility as well as that of the entity. His only point was that he serves on the Board
because he cares deeply about what it provides and about the community.
Chris Clinton, 5308 River Forest Road noted that he a DSL Trustee and Director of
Training. He is a coach active in GOYSL and MOSSL. DSL does not actively promote
GOYSL at this time and that is why the numbers are dwindling. Some of the teams have
been mandated to move into MOSSL. There is no U8 in the MOSSL program. He clarified
that the OP and Ohio FC Soccer programs did receive monies for running spring clinics -
they received $1,400. Why do these clubs need Dublin? They need them for the fields and
they need acommunity-based team behind them in order to be carded to play in MOSSL.
He explained that first a player must be carded in order to have a team. A club trainer cost
approximately $1,500 per season. Dublin Select teams are mandated to play in the C level
of MOSSL, so an A or B level player who did not want to make the commitment to OP or
Ohio FC has only the option to play at the C level of MOSSL. If a player does not succeed
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 16
in OP or Ohio FC tryouts and wants to play A level, they must go outside of Dublin -there
is no other option. If a player cannot afford to play A or B in Dublin, they must go outside of
Dublin. Dublin Select participants can only participate at the C level of MOSSL. The
proposed DSL agreement has structures which limit the opportunities for children to
perform. There are 10 to13 players per year at the U9 level who are capable of playing A
level soccer but who do not have the opportunity because of the constraints within the
current agreement. OP and Ohio FC do a great job in terms of soccer, but what they do is
incompatible with a community program. It is exclusive, limits the facilities, and is cost
prohibitive.
Mayor McCash asked how many play on a team.
Mr. Clinton responded that there are 10-12 on a roster for U10; after that, there are 16 on a
roster. There are 8 on the field up to U10; 11 on a team after U10.
Mayor McCash noted that for OP and Ohio FC, there are tryouts. If there are enough
qualified players for 6 teams, can they accommodate them?
Mr. Clinton responded that his experience is that they will form an A team, a B team, and
assign the rest to Dublin Select for a C level team. This limits the opportunities for A level
soccer.
Discussion continued about numbers of teams, their levels, composition and limits of
rosters under league rules and options available to families/players.
Ken McMahon, 8797 Killilea Court noted that he agrees that the recreational program in
Dublin is second to none. With the DSL Board, his concern is that they vote for
themselves, they decide who fills the positions, and therefore they can prevent anyone from
serving on the Board. He believes that the DSL Board members should be voted upon by
the membership. Someone should be monitoring the program, as it is a monopoly.
Undertaking a survey would provide feedback without fear of repercussion. OP and OFC
would obtain feedback with objective comments about the process and their operations.
He does not want to have OFC and OP eliminated, but believes they could do a better jab.
Most of the controversy lies in the middle tier. The GOYLS program was fine for the U10
and U14 groups. They were convinced that they needed to go somewhere else by the DSL
Board. In addition, the middle tier should not be controlled by the clubs, but by the DSL at
large. Perhaps a City representative could serve an oversight function for this middle tier.
This would provide more opportunities and less restrictions. They wouldn't have to
necessarily pay for training. There is room in the middle tier to provide other options, while
still monitoring OFC and OP.
Ms. Salay noted that in regard to having GOYLS teams play under DSL, there seems to be
a desire to keep teams together following their GOYSL experience and because clubs
won't guarantee this, they feel the need to go to other entities, such as Eagles, etc.
Mr. McMahon responded that the reality is that families of players want to stay together,
that they are resistant to change. What harm is there in having a draft similar to what DYA
does for the baseball program? In reality, there are sometimes players not wanted on a
team for various reasons. People change clubs teams because they want a different
experience.
Ms. Salay stated that as a parent, the guarantee of keeping teams together sounds
somewhat elitist. The soccer programs should serve everyone, and all should have
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 17
opportunities. Coaches wha sign on must take on the "good" kids as well as the ones who
are more difficult to manage, as well as their parents. This is the only issue in regard to
merging GOYLS into Select -there must be a way to reconcile these issues, but the idea
of keeping teams together seems unfair.
Mr. McMahon responded that this idea has proliferated over time. The GOYLS teams used
to do that, and then as the Dublin select program began with three teams, they were grand
fathered in as teams. This has been a continuum. The language in the current agreement
calls for keeping four players on the same team - he is proposing having a draft process.
Jim Link, Dublin Youth Athletics, 6065 Springburn Drive stated that he has no affiliation with
soccer but is here to address the issues raised about Ohio High School Athletic Association
rules. He serves as a varsity high school coach. Briefly, no more than 50 percent of the
members of an off-season team may be from the same school team. In basketball, there
are 5 players, so no more than 2 could play together in the off-season. In baseball, with 9
players, no more than 4 could play together. A high school team is defined as the
freshman, junior varsity and varsity participants in that gender in that sport. They are all
considered members of the same team. The off-season is defined as whatever isn't the
season. From June 1-July 31, there is a dead period and the participation rules do not
apply. The only exception is that the coach can have contact with the players only 10 days
during that timeframe.
Mrs. Boring commented that she does not understand what government's role is in club
soccer. She would like staff to provide information on how other cities handle their
recreational soccer, and how government should be involved in the club programs. From
her point of view, she has no desire for Council to go in and structure the Board, tell them
haw to run their programs or their selection process.
She believes that the City should be cautious, and that there were certain things discussed
tonight that the City has no need to manitar or control. She would like more information
from Dana on government's role in general and how involved other governments are in
their soccer programs.
Ms. Chinnici-Zuercher noted that for her, there is a big distinction between recreational
soccer and preparing young people to be competitive at a college entrance level. She does
not understand why government would want to be involved at the higher levels of soccer -
those who are making a higher level of commitment about their future goals. She, too,
would like to know how other governmental entities address these issues. These are no
longer recreation issues. The OP teams are being prepared for college scholarship
opportunities. As Council Members, the question is what is the goal of the recreational
programming made available to citizens.
Mr. Lecklider noted that he echoes Mr. McDaniel's comments about the contributions made
by the current and former DSL Board, the OP Board and the OFC Board. The questions
are not intended to question their motivations, but as an elected official, he wants to be
personally accountable and able to respond to questions about these matters. The issues
raised have come from both the recreational and the club levels. The question is at what
level should the City be involved and what should the City's contribution be? His view is
that in terms of providing these opportunities, the City's goal should be to accommodate all
levels of interest and ability to the extent possible, realizing that there may be limitations.
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 18
At a minimum, in exchange for what is referred to as monopolistic rights, given the
hundreds of thousands of dollars of fees collected, and the fact that these clubs are
essentially serving a public purpose -they should operate transparently, should disclose all
information about their operations so that Council can respond to questions. He added that
he recognizes the potential merit in not allowing multiple clubs to exist, in other words a
monopoly of sorts -there is some value in that. But his intent is that all interests are
equally represented with checks and balances in place so that the interests representing a
relatively small percentage of the Dublin sower community do not ultimately dominate. He
believes that Mr. McDaniel is heading in the right direction with his recommendations.
Ms. Salay noted that she shares Mr. Lecklider's sentiments. She, too, questions what
government's role is in this. She agrees that government is accountable because the City
holds the biggest asset of the teams outside of the youth -the fields they play on. Those
are owned by the taxpayers and if the City is not going to allow a certain group of residents
access to fields or to the ability to play, there must be a good reason for this. Tonight's
effort was intended as information gathering. She thanked everyone who is involved in
DSL - it is a huge asset to the community and a great organization. She thanked Mr.
McDaniel for all of the information provided and noted that he is on the right track.
Mr. Kranstuber agreed that Mr. McDaniel has done a nice job in assembling this
information for Council in an objective way. Hopefully, everyone agrees it is important that
Council have an understanding of an issue in order to make good decisions in the future.
This discussion also is related to the memorandum of understanding with MOSSL.
Tonight's discussion may prompt a closer look at the DSL board structure. The grievance
process is important - a legal structure should be available to address aworst-case
scenario. The composition of teams in terms of Dublin and non-Dublin members has been
discussed. Staff will continue to work on the field proposal to finalize that. It is very
important to maintain as many different levels of opportunity as possible. Perhaps a
mission statement or bylaw can be drafted to ensure that there is a commitment to all of the
various levels of abilities.
Mayor McCash thanked everyone for their participation and patience. A lot of information
has been shared. In terms of a monopoly situation, if government authorizes such a
monopoly, there needs to be more scrutiny and review because of the minority concerns.
Mr. McDaniel will provide additional information on the issues and the proposal at a future
date.
Ms. Brautigam asked if Council has a timeline in mind for staff to bring this back.
This is the last study session scheduled for the summer months.
Mayor McCash responded that from his standpoint, recognizing staff's need to obtain
additional information and work on the agreement with the law director, he would estimate
a mid to late fall timeline.
Mr. Coffman suggested that the agreement with
renewable versus amulti-year agreement.
Ms. Brautigam stated that she would envision a
year with a certain notice period.
DSL be acne-year agreement which is
one-year agreement, renewable year to
Study Session
Monday, June 16, 2003
Page 19
Ms. Chinnici-Zuercher moved to adjourn at 11 p.m.
Ms. Salay seconded the motion.
Motion carried unanimously.
Clerk of Council
