HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-29-22 Work Session MinutesDUBLIN CITY COUNCIL
WORK SESSION
TUESDAY, AUGUST 29, 2022
COUNCIL CHAMBER
6:00 PM
Minutes
Mayor Fox called the August 29, 2022 work session to order at 6:00 p.m.
Present were: Ms. Amorose Groomes, Vice Mayor De Rosa, Mayor Fox, Mr. Keeler, Ms.
Kramb, Mr. Reiner, and Ms. Alutto.
Staff present were: Mr. McDaniel, Mr. Rogers, Mr. McCollough, Ms. Weisenauer, Ms. Rauch,
Ms. O’Callaghan, Chief Paez, Ms. Blake, Ms. Goliver, Mr. Dearth, Ms. Holt, Ms. Readler, Ms.
Weisenauer, Mr. Farrar.
Also present: Greg Dale, McBride Dale Clarion
Mr. Reiner led the Pledge of Allegiance.
Board and Commission Liaison
Vice Mayor De Rosa introduced the topic of the board and commission liaison role and
provided a brief history. In February, City Council began discussing how to document the
role of liaison and decided to add it to their Rules of Order. Council referred the item to the
Administrative (Admin) Committee where it was discussed, brought back to Council, was
referred back to Admin, and the Admin Committee has suggested language that was
provided to Council. When this topic was originally introduced, there were a set of questions
before Council to be answered when drafting this document. She suggested going through
the questions to ensure they have been answered.
Vice Mayor De Rosa asked Ms. Amorose Groomes for an update on her experience so far as
a Council Liaison to the Planning and Zoning Commission (PZC). Ms. Amorose Groomes
stated that she has attended 5 or 6 agenda meetings. Staff, Legal, and PZC leadership
attends the agenda meetings. The Planning Director goes over each case on the agenda
covering push points and backstories as well as how communication has gone. PZC
leadership will ask any questions they may have and they will then ask for sticking points
from Council. Potential Council issues typically have to do with site layout. Ms. Amorose
Groomes shared that she will often offer items that might be important to Council. She does
reiterate that Dublin always tries to make adjacent developments as good as or better than
what is next to them. Legal is always in the room for agenda meetings. She does not speak
to PZC members outside of that room. There are very bright lines for that communication.
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Mr. Keeler asked if Ms. Amorose Groomes feels that this fulfills the purpose. Ms. Amorose
Groomes responded affirmatively. Sometimes the Commission Members agree with her and
you will see that reflected in meeting minutes but sometimes they do not. She is grateful
they feel comfortable to disagree and glad they feel free to go their own way. If Dublin is
going to have a PZC, Council needs to be prepared to have outcomes we do not like. That is
democracy.
Vice Mayor De Rosa referenced the first question - “What is Council’s purpose/goal in
establishing the liaison role?” The document as drafted states that the purpose is to facilitate
two-way communication.
Mayor Fox stated that she thinks it is important that the liaison has the opportunity at an
agenda meeting to have those conversations. She feels the purpose of a liaison might be
broader. The liaison has the opportunity to do a variety of things in addition to attending the
agenda meeting. She sees the liaison as a circular communicator between the Commission,
Council, and staff to make sure the Commission members have the education and materials
they need to do their job. She suggested that the liaison could make sure the members
receive the City Manager’s memo and possibly host workshop meetings between board and
commission and Council. She feels the liaison should be lowed to talk outside meetings to
check in and to let them know we are there to help. Commission members have a big job
that is complex. Vice Mayor De Rosa asked if those items are covered in Section C within the
drafted rules. Ms. Kramb stated that in her opinion, all of that is covered in C. What is not
specifically stated is when those communications occur. The agenda meeting is a great time.
It is regular and there is staff and legal in attendance. If there are questions, they can be
asked there. Mayor Fox stated that the agenda meetings are only attended by the two PZC
members and there may be other commission members that have questions. Last year, the
Mayor and Vice Mayor interviewed board and commission members and there was value in
that. More communication cannot be harmful. Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that we put
joint meetings on the calendar for a reason for all of Council and she thinks that those
meetings are the best place for that communication. Communication is difficult when there
is a large volume of conversation with 7 members. She would put the responsibility for
assistance and training on staff. If they see voids in skills, staff should bring that forward
and suggest training. The liaison’s role is to communicate Council’s positions on things; for
example, it is important to continue to lean on materials, site layout, parking issues, etc. It
can become a game of telephone if there are too many conversations. We should not be
discussing applications specifically. She would lean on staff to outline training and suggest
we have at least one meeting per year collectively. Mayor Fox asked about the interviews
that were held last year. Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that she would assume those
interviews would happen. There was a summary written up and shared from that. They
were not one-on-one meetings. Mayor Fox asked about onboarding and if that is an
opportunity to have a conversation or share Council’s position. Ms. Rauch explained that
onboarding is done with legal and staff and covers a lot of information. There can be a follow
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up conversation. Mr. Reiner stated that a lot of this has to do with clarity. Some of the
consensus of Council would be helpful to board and commission members.
Vice Mayor De Rosa asked for additional thoughts, changes or additions. Mr. Keeler agreed
with the communication part of the document. It is very important that liaison reinforce
Council goals and vision with regard to specific cases on the docket and joint meetings are
the opportunity to reconfirm vision and policy. Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that some
flexibility in the language of the document is important. She thinks section “B” binds Council’s
hands. She suggested updating wording to state that liaisons may or may not be members
of assigned boards/commission. Sometimes a Council member serving as a board or
commission member was helpful and sometimes not. Preserving that ability might be
appropriate. Ms. Kramb stated that her problem is with the voting capacity. A Council
member has more clout being there. She has served on boards with a Council member and
without and she is okay leaving it written so that a Council member would not have voting
authority. Vice Mayor De Rosa stated the language in the rules does not technically preclude
Council from placing a member on PZC. Ms. Readler stated that there could be a Council
member representative on a board/commission. That type of position could be created by
legislation. These are just the rules and are meant to be operational.
Ms. Alutto stated that she is comfortable with the language as it is.
Ms. Kramb stated that Council goals and vision could be inserted into Section E to address
Keeler’s concern.
Vice Mayor De Rosa stated that she feels it is important to add planning staff and legal under
Section F to clarify that these are not one on one. Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that the
items reviewed by PZC are critical and care needs to be taken as this is a powerful entity.
She agrees with adding staff and legal to Section F. She referenced back to Section B and
stated that she does not want to have this document be in conflict with the Charter. Ms.
Readler clarified that a liaison is not the same as a board/commission member that Council
could appoint.
Vice Mayor De Rosa asked if the liaison should be expanded beyond PZC. Do we wish to
have Council liaisons to more than one board or commission. The Admin Committee did
determine that there are two types of boards/commission; there are decision-making bodies
and advisory-only bodies. Those that have decision making authority are the Board of Zoning
Appeals (BZA), the Architectural Review Board (ARB), and PZC.
Vice Mayor De Rosa suggested adding language to indicate that liaisons will be appointed at
the Council organizational meeting.
Mr. Keeler stated that Council could have a liaison for ARB. Ms. Kramb stated that ARB is
very busy lately and she thinks they could use a liaison. Ms. A lutto agreed. Mayor Fox agreed
and asked if BZA has ever asked for one.
Mr. Reiner asked if there are decisions coming out of these boards that are not of the best
interest of the City. He is not a big fan of liaisons. PZC members are more schooled on
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planning than Council members. PZC has felt that they were making the tough decisions and
became frustrating to find out Council would overturn those decisions. We want to appoint
people to execute the common good of the City. This discussion tells him that Council does
not feel that way. Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that this is really about communication.
People are getting busier. They may not have the chance to watch Council meetings. As the
community grows, there are people who have not lived here for as long and this provides
the opportunity to help them to continue to understand what has been important in the past
or in the future. This is not a reflection of the quality of an appointee. Mayor Fox stated that
it is a balance. We want open communication so board/commission members understand
what their resources are. Vice Mayor De Rosa stated the liaison is to meet with Chair and
Vice Chair. They do not onboard new members. That belongs to staff. Mayor Fox suggested
asking ARB if they want/need a liaison. Mr. Reiner stated that he stills think it is a question
of clarity. Appointees should be planners or architects that should have a good understanding
of the job. Ms. Alutto stated liaison is there to share things that Council believes generally
and if we received a lot of applications from architects and planners, we would populate the
boards with those professionals. Council needs to decide some of the larger issues/concerns
like homeowners’ associations. Ms. Alutto stated that will be discussed at Wednesday’s
(August 31, 2022) joint meeting.
Mayor Amorose Groomes moved to direct staff to update Council Rules of Order Section
12.03 per meeting discussion and to bring to Council for consideration. Ms. Alutto
seconded.
Vote on the Motion: Mayor Fox, yes; Mr. Keller, yes; Ms. Kramb, yes; Ms. Alutto, yes;
Vice Mayor De Rosa, yes; Mr. Reiner, yes; Ms. Amorose Groomes, yes.
Vice Mayor De Rosa stated that staff will bring the consideration of additional liaisons back
with the resolution amending the rules.
Most Connected/FTTH Follow-Up
Mr. McCollough shared an in progress update on Council’s Most Connected goal and Fiber to
the Home.
The City held Innovation Day and staff considers it a great success. There were attendees
from inside and outside the state. Great information was delivered and it allowed the City to
articulate its goals. The City of Dublin described what it means to be most connected city in
the world. We did not want anyone coming to table later saying that they didn’t know what
we were doing, why, or how to get involved and that event took care of that concern.
The City released its Request for Proposals (RFP). We believed it reached all entities that
needed to see it. Key players and participants were highly aware and able to respond.
Innovation Day helped them to distribute the RFP. Staff has received a few questions and
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responded publicly as is the normal process. There were not any great surprises in the
questions. Staff was able to answer and publicize back onto the website. The RFP was closed
per the schedule. The team is very happy with the volume, content and diversity of the
responses received. Enough responses were received to understand what the market can
do. We encouraged people to partner up and work together so all responses were relevant.
We tried to be careful not to prescribe to the market and we have gotten a potpourri of
different responses. A hard direction has not chosen. We received different business models
and are in a position to choose the direction we want to go. There are carriers, local
companies, national providers, new companies and established ones. Staff is leaning heavily
on the City’s third-party contractor, Entropy. They have been tasked with performing an
analysis of respondents and they have come back with preliminary thoughts. Their review
is still in process and should include options and risks. Their analysis will not include a final
recommendation. That will be done internally. Mr. McCollough recognized the internal team
(Michael Farrar, Dana McDaniel, Greg Dunn, Lindsay Weisenauer, and Doug McCollough).
The internal team will do a separate analysis and combine the two to provide a
recommendation to Council. That step will likely be a request for a recommendation to move
forward with negotiations. There will not be a final cost number until negotiations are
complete. The intent is to negotiate final scope and terms with that provider, and at that
point, the City would expect to move from the initial phase into the execution phase. The
City believes they have viable plans from responses received
Mr. McDaniel shared with Council that Dublin has signed up to be the host for the 2022
Intelligent Community Forum’s Global Summit held October 26-27. There, we will be
celebrating top 10 connected cities from around the world and all of them will likely have a
contingency here. They will spend the day here followed by dinner at the statehouse, and
tours the following day. Attendees will be staying in Dublin. There will be discussions about
the Intelligent State of Ohio as well.
Mr. Reiner thanked Mr. McCollough and stated that he is looking forward to the report.
Mayor Fox asked if there were any surprising responses. Mr. McCollough stated that there
were some new technology. We felt that Passive Optical Networking was likely the technology
that we would be working with. There were different ways of getting signal to homes that
were intriguing. We did find some different ways of thinking on the technical side. On the
business side there were models that were vastly different from each other.
Ms. Amorose Groomes asked how many responses were received. Mr. McCollough responded
that there were 7. The approaches were able to be broken down into similar groupings. Staff
began to see 3 patterns emerging. Different models where municipalities are looking at how
to get this service to the community.
Vice Mayor De Rosa stated that Council has received an update that other communities are
stepping up to the plate with regard to fiber to the home. It would seem that momentum
would be helpful. She asked for Mr. McCollough’s thoughts on that. Mr. McCollough stated
that we always try to keep Dublin 2 years ahead. Because of the amount of work we’ve
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already done, we have a deeper understanding of this than other communities. There have
been some communities stumbling forward into American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) funded
plans that may not be as well thought out as Dublin. If we take great care, we can have
more permanent future-proof solution that is imbedded with the rest of our connectivity. We
are talking about a “Most Connected Community” whereas others are just talking about fiber
to the home. Mr. McCollough thanked and acknowledged everyone working on this.
Historic Preservation Discussion
Ms. Rauch stated that there have been multiple opportunities to discuss historic preservation
and they are there this evening to continue the conversation. She introduced Greg Dale with
McBride Dale Clarion, and stated that he is here to help facilitate the discussion and pinpoint
Council’s direction. We will be looking at the local district as well as the National Register
District and how those districts work in conjunction with one another.
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that Ms. Kramb had sent a list of topics of consideration to
staff and Council. Ms. Rauch stated that the memo staff provided was based on those items.
Mr. Dale stated that he read the minutes from Council’s April meeting and reviewed Ms.
Kramb’s memo. It seemed to him that there are a lot of different ideas being discussed. He
believes it would be helpful to narrow down the discussion and think about and separate the
following two things: the local zoning district and the National Historic Register district. Items
for consideration with the local district include the boundaries, the zoning standards, Historic
District Guidelines, and the administrative review process. The period of significance is of
interest as well. Some of the same considerations are pertinent to the National Historic
Register district. He reiterated that the National Register district is not a local designation.
He explained that he is not here to recommend anything but to facilitate discussion.
Mr. Keeler stated that the high-level question is whether there are certain properties that are
more sacred than others and if there is a certain time period when a property was built that
we want to retain. There has been an erosion of the historic district. Dublin does not have
the luxury of having a large stock of properties that are worthy of blanket preservation.
Mr. Reiner stated that Council has had an intensive discussion is what should be preserved
but never came to a decision on what is worth saving. Also for consideration is how to rebuild
a house that fits architecturally in the space. The boundaries are fairly well established
currently.
Mayor Fox stated that, for her, the question is, “Why do we want to preserve something?”
In response to Mayor Fox’s question regarding the National Historic Register properties, Ms.
Kramb stated that National Register has nothing to do with local zoning regulations. It is
purely related to federal dollars and action. Mayor Fox does not believe there has been
enough education around this.
Vice Mayor De Rosa stated that she would decide what to preserve by identifying what
buildings are important to the City’s history. Other cities tell the story of their city by
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historically significant buildings. If one of those treasures needs rebuilt, she would want us
to rebuild around those historical treasures to tell the same story.
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that where the boundaries are fine. She is a big advocate for
identifying individual properties that they want to save. Some buildings are significant
because of what took place in them or the materials they were built with. It is appropriate
to identify what is significant. With regard to infill, new structures should look like they fit
unless there is good reason for juxtaposition. Although she may not agree with size and
scale of new construction in the district, she does like the materials. Most important is that
any new build is an enduring piece. Price should not drive what the historic district looks like.
We want this to be a pedestrian portion of the City.
Ms. Alutto stated that there is some confusion about Council’s philosophy and direction in
terms of meaning, materials, infill, placemaking, etc. It is important to put the thoughts and
philosophy in writing in a way that is digestible. It is important to articulate all of this.
Ms. Kramb stated that following issues: new construction, demolitions, identifying what we
want to preserve, and the philosophy. Between current guidelines and zoning code, Dublin
is at a good point where we have figured out materials, form and philosophy with regard to
new construction. We have to let that play out. What that leaves is demolition and what we
want to keep. Dublin decided in 1986 what we were going to keep. Properties currently listed
on the National Historic Registe r (district and individual properties) are 95% of what we want
to preserve. In 2017, we sent a consultant out and looked under current standards and they
looked at everything older than 50 years. The consultant provided a document identifying
significant properties (contributing and non-contributing). Council accepted that document
and accepted the recommendation. That is what has muddled up this discussion. Council has
to decide if we want the consultants’ recommendation or to pick certain properties.
Mr. Dale summarized the discussion so far. Boundaries are not being debated. Zoning and
design standards are only 18 months old and they need to play o ut. The review process itself
is not under consideration. He is hearing demolition and philosophy as topics. They spent a
lot of time wordsmithing demolition. Contributing versus non-contributing classification
mainly relates to demolition standards. The standard is higher for contributing buildings than
non-contributing. The basic standard is no economic use for the property.
Ms. Kramb stated that it is working under the standards. The question is what constitutes
contributing versus non-contributing. She suggested removing contributing vs. non-
contributing and going with properties listed on the National Historic Register list is the
simplest answer. Ms. Amorose Groomes asked if someone can apply to be removed from the
National Historic Register. Ms. Kramb responded that it is difficult and Ohio has only ever
removed one thing and it was completely demolished. Mr. Dale asked if everything in the
National District is also in the local district. Ms. Kramb answered affirmatively.
Ms. Rauch referenced the map including in Council’s packet. Everything in orange is an
individually listed National Register property and everything outlined in red is part of the
National Register district.
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Mayor Fox asked if a property is now in the district because of the 50-year sliding scale. Ms.
Kramb explained that once a property has gone through the application and designation
process, it is listed and that list does not change.
Ms. Rauch stated that if that is the direction to go, the City could further designate specific
properties. Ms. Kramb stated that if we get rid of that contributing/non-contributing
language, that would remove the high burden for demolition for all properties except those
on the Historic Register.
Ms. Amorose Groomes would like to identify all properties to be preserved by address. Ms.
Kramb stated there has to be a fair standard and not just an address. They can be listed by
address but there has to be a reason.
Mr. Dale asked if staff has the guidance to work on this. Ms. Rauch answered affirmatively.
Mr. Dale stated that there are a lot of big ideas for discussion. There is the idea of doing an
area plan for this district. Those are exactly the kind of questions that will be answered
through a planning process.
Vice Mayor De Rosa if we agree to protect something, when it hits the threshold and can be
demolished, we should have some rules about what can be rebuilt. That would be another
discussion. Mr. Dale stated that there was a lot of time spent with the public discussing this
topic. The community was split down the middle so the Code lang uage is “similar”. New build
standards can be revisited and discussed if needed but all of that is in the code and
guidelines. Some of this is public education. Mayor Fox stated that the people that came
were over the broader district. If you narrow it down to the area that we are really trying to
preserve, she thinks the answers would be different. They would really want to preserve the
historic district. If we could have higher standards for areas in the central part of the district,
having a plan might have some leniency on other areas but put parameters in place to
preserve the character. Mr. Dale stated that this covers four difference zoning districts. The
current historic district is more than just the district.
Ms. Kramb stated if we were to change the language from contributing/non-contributing to
listed on the district or not listed, that opens up the residential properties then and they no
longer have that huge burden of contributing.
Mayor Fox stated that one of the fears she has heard is that they are looking for ways to lift
some of the heavy burden but they do not want to lift if all. There is a balance to be
maintained. Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that is what planning and zoning’s job is every
day. The feeling there is not that much different throughout the rest of the community.
Mr. Keeler stated that we should be specific with regard to rebuilds/new builds in the area.
Mr. Dale stated that those protections are in there now. If a building meets the standard for
demolition, when something new is built, it needs to similar. Mr. Keeler stated that 3 High is
an example of something that is similar but “Disney-fied” and we don’t want that. Mr. Dale
stated that there will always be some level of discretion at the Architectural Review Board