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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-15-18 Work Session - Joint MinutesJOINT WORK SESSION CITY COUNCIL AND PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION Monday, October 15, 2018 Council Chambers 5:30 p.m. Minutes of Meeting Mayor Peterson called the joint work session to order at 6:09 p.m. Council Members Present: Mayor Peterson, Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes, Ms. Alutto, Ms. De Rosa and Ms. Fox. Mr. Keenan and Mr. Reiner were absent. Planning and Zoning Commission Members Present: Ms. Newell, Mr. Stidhem and Mr. Fishman. Mr. Miller, Mr. Wilson and Ms. Kennedy were absent. Mayor Peterson welcomed the Planning and Zoning Commission members to the work session. He referenced the agenda item, but noted they were not limited to these items for discussion. He invited Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes to introduce the Historic Transition District discussion and reference a map that was at each members' place to assist with the discussion. Historic Transition District Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that about 18 months ago, Council viewed a video during a work session of what S.R. 161 could look like if it were to be developed to maximum density. She believes that video revealed that maxing out the density was not desirable for that area. On one side of the historic core is the river, which is a nice transition into Bridge Street District and into the higher density that exists there. However, on the east side of the historic core, there is nothing to step down that intensity. In that same work session, discussions were held after viewing that video about the need for a transition area into the historic core from the west. The density and the type of buildings, the size and scale that are in Bridge Street are not appropriate throughout SR 161. Council felt it is necessary to have a vision for the area as a transition before any development pressures began. She stated that the area outlined in the map provided shows the transition district. The materials are not so reflective as historic, but the size and scale would be. As an example, there wouldn't be a four-story building of all glass up against SR161. The size, scale and texture would be appropriate for transitioning into a historic district. Council wanted to bring the Planning and Zoning Commission (PZC) into the discussion to help develop the district and think about what the Code language might be and how that text should be written. Ms. Fox stated that the intersection of Frantz Road and US 33 is similar to a "front door' coming into Dublin. She would like to include the intersection in the discussion about the transition area. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes agreed, stating they viewed that intersection as a "gateway" into the City. Some of the gateway features have been discussed previously and there may be some design contemplation regarding what could be included. Mayor Peterson stated that the Post Office is located in the outlined area shown on the map and asked whether or not that creates any issues, given it is federally owned land. Does the post office have a larger footprint than just the building? Joint Meeting of Council and Planning and Zoning Commission October 15, 2018 Page 2 of 9 Mr. McDaniel responded that there is property to the backside of the post office that OCLC was trying to acquire. However, OCLC was unsuccessful. Mr. Stidhem asked if OCLC owns a lot of the land in that area. Mr. McDaniel stated that there is a large area to the north and to the west owned by OCLC. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that the City owns a significant portion of the corner as well. Mr. McDaniel stated that was correct. Mr. Stidhem asked if it was still planned to move Post Road over to where the Post Office is currently located at Shawan Falls. Mr. McDaniel responded that the plan that was discussed previously was a realignment of Post Road to the north and then extending Frantz Road to the north to create a larger intersection roundabout. Shawan Falls Drive would be extended, potentially going through the OCLC campus and coming out on Dublin Road. There is no connection proposed from Shawan Falls to the Rock Cress Drive to the east. Mr. Papsidero added that the post office owns 2.6 acres. Mayor Peterson asked why the post office might want to retain that property. Mr. McDaniel responded that in the last discussion with OCLC, the desire of the post office was to protect their existing campus. Mr. Stidhem asked for clarification about installing a traffic circle at Frantz/Post/US33 intersection. Mr. McDaniel stated it was not at that intersection. The plans called for Post Road to be shifted north and create more distance between the US33 intersection. These were old engineering plans. Mr. Papsidero added that there was an initial concept study on improving the northbound flow to I-270 at least a year ago that also affected the segment of road to the east up to Shawan Falls. However, the engineering solutions were not pleasing or acceptable. Mr. Stidhem stated that he is glad this transition area is an area of focus. He agreed it is the main entrance into the City and he has been disappointed with the aesthetics. There is a lot of potential for this gateway. The existing strip mall is somewhat sketchy at night due to the easy access off the highway. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that the transitional area should not look like the balance of Bridge Street, but rather look and feel different. It should look more "hometown" than "big business." It was included as a topic for discussion at this joint session because if PZC agreed that this should be a transitional area, PZC and staff would work to develop some specifics and frame it a little more. Ms. Newell stated that many times the love of architecture is in the eye of the beholder. She used the example of the Dublin Heights. She loves the Dublin Heights for what they represent, but many people do not like them. She would love to see them preserved. Mr. Fishman congratulated Council and staff for staying ahead of this issue. He stated that whatever town you travel, people rave about their historic districts. He is happy that this is Joint Meeting of Council and Planning and Zoning Commission October 15, 2018 Page 3 of 9 being discussed. There is a need to "present" the town as people enter the City. If we can retain the historic look with two-story buildings that would be desirable. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that Council would like PZC to: • work with staff and begin developing what this transition area would look like; • develop Code language that would be applicable to this area; and • bring these recommendations back to Council for consideration. She added that Council's vision is something more of a human scale, less urban scale; materials are very important; and something of great architectural interest. Ms. Fox stated noted that the City is working to achieve walkable environments and connecting its natural assets to built areas -- and creating not only a transitional element, but a walkable community. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes mentioned that another area that was discussed previously is the "No Build — No Disturb Zone," in the greenway just behind Sells Middle School. The greenway ties into Ms. Fox's point. She suggested to Planning staff that the greenway area district should be brought to PZC so they can be aware of this area that Council has set aside. Rezoning of Historic District Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that Council discussed removing the Z1, Z2, the Library and the Garage from the Historic District. The reasoning behind the desire to remove these from the Historic District is so that future builders/developers will not take any cues from those buildings as to what is permissible to build in the district. These buildings are not reflective of the Historic District and using them as an example of what to build in the future results in the City being further away from great architecture that would be reflective of the City's history. There is a list of various parcels identified by address that are still subject to review by the Architectural Review Board (ARB), but those are not located in the Historic District. It is Council's intent to put these properties (Z1, Z2, the Library and the garage buildings) on the same list as the other parcels identified by address so they too would be subject to review by ARB. Mr. Stidhem asked where these other parcels on the ARB list are located. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated the parcels consist of various properties throughout the City and gave an example of an historic property on Brand Road. Mayor Peterson asked if Council is permitted to include any address on the list or does it have to meet some other criteria. Ms. Readler responded that the properties on the list have some sort of historical significance/context or proximity to the district. The Z1, Z2, Library and parking garage are in proximity to the Historic District Ms. Newell explained that the house on Brand Road was listed on the National Register of Historic Places, which is why it was catalogued as a historic property. She understood the thought behind removing the buildings from the District; however, she referred to the Secretary of the Interior's Guidelines, which is what ultimately should govern all the property in the Historic District. Because the library project is adjacent to and touching a historic property, she believes more harm may be done by removing it from the Historic District. The point of the Joint Meeting of Council and Planning and Zoning Commission October 15, 2018 Page 4 of 9 Secretary of the Interior's guidelines is not to artificially recreate a historic structure that didn't belong there to begin with. Some people interpret that to mean that contemporary architecture is appropriate because you are not reproducing what was there originally. She believes the library should remain in the district as it is today. Every architect may look at the more contemporary buildings and see them differently. She doesn't believe they would want to come in and build similar buildings all over the district. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that this is a discussion that Council will have with ARB as well, but Council wanted PZC's input. Historical and Cultural Assessment Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that Council wants to hear the Commission's ideas and thoughts about how this document should be used going forward. Ms. Newell stated that she would love to see some of the historic districts expanded. The Mid - Century neighborhood and the Indian Run homes should be protected. She reiterated her previous point, that it wouldn't be cohesive to omit the library from the Historic District since it sits so close to these neighborhoods. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that Council wanted this document to go back to PZC and ARB and have those two groups work together on visioning and how to move forward incorporating this document. Ms. Fox stated that ARB is to do an inventory of historic structures, which is where the request for this assessment originated. It is a wealth of information. She believes this document makes one think about the guidelines for the Historic District and the natural environment that is historic to Dublin, such as the river, stone walls, etc. Now that there is an inventory of a variety of historic treasures, it can be prioritized and we can determine what should be done to preserve and protect. What don't we want to lose in the future? The policy around how these historic elements are dealt with is important to establish. There will be input about demolition, for example the green buildings on Monterey are considered historic. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that these points would all be part of the discussion about the historic transition district when PZC works to codify the desired vision. Ms. Alutto stated that there is a list of recommendations in the executive summary of the assessment. She requested feedback on the recommendations as well as the prioritization of those recommendations. How do we preserve without over preserving? Ways to honor something as a piece of history without necessarily preserving it — such as placement of a plaque. Mr. Stidhem stated that he is supportive of placing a plaque and building something new. He is supportive of protecting the natural environments and green space. He believes that we could build better things as a City and remove some of the structures that might not be worth saving. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that differing opinions exist on PZC and these difficult discussions need to occur. Council needs recommendations that are representative of what the community's desires are. She suggested that they garner public input on where to go with this. If it is publicized and discussed, then there is opportunity for public input and progress can be made. She believes developers are avoiding this area now because it is under the Bridge Street zoning. However, in driving through the area, it doesn't feel like it should be in that zoning district. Joint Meeting of Council and Planning and Zoning Commission October 15, 2018 Page 5 of 9 Mayor Peterson stated that this is a fantastic document. He initially believed this was an ARB document. He believes the house on Brand Road that was demolished brought the focus on historic structures and value. There are some buildings on Dublin Road that could be taken down, but the issue then becomes what you replace it with. There is a healthy blend between past and future. This is a city-wide document. Mr. Fishman stated that he agrees with what is being said. There is a difference between the Perry Township Hall and the 19' century commercial building on High Street that is all stone. He believes the City has to be selective moving forward. He has never met anyone who lived in a historic house or had a historic office building that didn't brag about it. Transition is very important. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that the message she is hearing is that these issues need to be addressed. No one on Council is saying, "save them all." But we need someone to garner public opinion and give Council recommendations on how to proceed in these areas, utilizing this document. Mr. Fishman stated that the Edwards' buildings downtown Columbus did a great job blending new with old. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes suggested that taking a tour of such areas can be very helpful. Ms. De Rosa stated that people respect what the City respects. This document is a living document. People will enjoy hearing about their heritage. This document is part of the living narrative of living in the community. Mr. Papsidero stated that development cases that are coming through the process will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. The Historical Society's primary function is to promote history and culture in the community. The City's website is a resource as staff reviews the guidelines for ARB. A large portion of the guidelines for the ARB deal with how to maintain and preserve property. Ms. De Rosa suggested there should be ways for people to "tell their story." She isn't certain whose responsibility it is to make the opportunity available for people to do so. Ms. Newell responded that it is a combination of all of these entities -- Council, ARB, Historical Society etc. There may be homeowners who don't realize that their property is listed in the historic and cultural assessment. For the Mid -Century neighborhood, for example, many people sought out that neighborhood because they want it to look just as it does today. There aren't many additions or changes. Mid -Century architecture is very popular. She suggested that the residents who live in these areas should be heard from as well. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that it is Council's desire that as PZC and ARB go through this process, it will be publicized and people will be encouraged to join the discussion. Ms. Newell stated that a property being listed on the National Registry of Historic Places doesn't stand still. If a house has that distinction, it doesn't stop the owners from renovating. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that once Mr. Papsidero and Ms. Husak have completed the Bridge Street Code update, work can begin on this project. Joint Meeting of Council and Planning and Zoning Commission October 15, 2018 Page 6 of 9 Conditions versus Waivers Ms. Fox stated that it is difficult for a Planning and Zoning Commissioner to know what power they have in terms of certain applications. She is seeking clarification regarding the difference between a condition and a waiver. Bridge Street applications come to the Commission and there may be 10-15 waivers involved. Waivers have been described to her as expected and that waivers are built into the form -based code. An application can also come forward with a variety of conditions, which she thought were comparable, but now she is uncertain. As an educational piece, she wanted clarification on the difference between a condition and a waiver. Mr. Papsidero stated that conditions of approval are conditions that staff has built into a recommendation. There are issues that are not fully resolved, so in order to approve a request or proposal, these conditions need to be addressed. He shared with some of the Commissioners after the October 11 meeting that when there are a large number of conditions, staff is indicating there is a "red flag" due to the number of issues. Staff cannot always recommend disapproval, but the commissioners should carefully consider the conditions, because those are items that need to be resolved at some point in the process. Waivers are very much a part of the form -based code and the form -based code would not work without them. The form -based code is very prescriptive and is meant to state the expectations for development; however, those are still somewhat abstract when applied to a project or specific site. Waivers are a permitted means of requesting relief from the code. A waiver is different from a variance in that a variance is arguing a hardship -- either because of the geometry of the site or some unique circumstances. A waiver is an administrative tool and it is within the Commission's authority to approve waivers. In some cases, the creative architecture requires a waiver because the form -based code is somewhat of a "cookie -cutter' recipe. Ms. Fox stated that in terms of conditions, and approval and disapproval, is there a better way for staff to communicate what the concerns might be? Ms. Newell stated in regard to conditions, for most cases, they wouldn't prevent the application from coming forward because they can be worked out with staff. If the Commission sees something minor that it would like to be addressed, a condition would be appropriate versus tabling an application. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that conditions are allowable by code. Generally, having conditions with the approval makes the project better. Conditions do have to be agreed upon by the applicant at the meeting. Conditions address something that is permissible but is not desirable. Waivers relate to something that is not permissible, but is desirable. Mayor Peterson asked for clarification regarding a condition -- whether it is a minor "box to be checked" or a "red flag" by staff. How are the Commissioners to know the difference? Mr. Papsidero stated that a number of conditions are standard ones that apply to the type of application. He gave the example of a case that is permissible by code, but is not the best it could be. Staff cannot always articulate that. Conditioning things beyond the standard set of conditions is staffs way of signaling to the Commission that there are things the Commission should look into further. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that many times, this may involve a number of lots in a development. The number of lots may be permissible, but they are not desirable for that particular development. Joint Meeting of Council and Planning and Zoning Commission October 15, 2018 Page 7 of 9 Ms. Fox stated that she is uncertain which conditions are to be questioned. She supported having discussion questions identified when she served on ARB because it was more clear what staffs concerns were. Mr. Papsidero suggested that the Commission can certainly question any condition and encouraged them to do so. This is part of the "art" of planning versus the "science" of planning. Discussion questions are done more frequently at a preliminary level. Once an application reaches the PZC review, it is inappropriate to do that or unfair to the applicant, so staff is bound to a recommendation and conditions. Ms. Husak stated that in some cases, staff may not be convinced that the applicant will be able to meet all the conditions. It is therefore appropriate for the Commission to ask an applicant how they intend to meet all the conditions. Ms. Fox stated that it is an educational piece. She believes others who are new in these roles need the same education when they begin their service in order to carry out their responsibilities. Ms. Newell stated that PZC has the responsibility to recognize the "red flags." If there is uncertainty about a condition, it should be questioned. It gives staff the opportunity to explain and elaborate on what they are uncomfortable with. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that table is sometimes appropriate if there are questions about an application that remain, or if the Commission feels rushed. Ms. Newell stated that the PZC has done that when necessary. She noted that when the Commission wants to table an item, the applicant has to agree to that. The applicant does have the ability to request a vote at that time. Ms. Fox suggested developing a way to educate Commissioners when they begin their service so they know what their role is, their power on certain applications, etc. Perhaps meeting with the new Commissioners prior to a meeting would be helpful. She would like to see an online education opportunity created that is subject based, so Commissioners who want to learn more can do so. Mr. Stidhem stated that he is always learning something new. It was a new board to him just a few years ago. He is very supportive of a brief pre -meeting session to learn more. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes asked if Mr. Papsidero could suggest a syllabus of topics that could be divided into 30 -minute sessions. Ms. Fox added that the topic should be related to what is coming before the Commission at that meeting so that the Commissioners are prepared procedurally. Ms. Readler stated that those sessions would need to be focused on procedural matters and not actual cases. Additional Comments Mr. Stidhem stated that he has been on the Commission for three and a half years and he feels we as a City are at an important point in history. There are significant changes coming that will change society in transportation, energy and communications. We are at the point where in the very near future, homes are going to become "power plants." We as a City should be mandating rules requiring that every new development or significant redevelopment that comes Joint Meeting of Council and Planning and Zoning Commission October 15, 2018 Page 8 of 9 into the City must be built with solar panels or built with the capability to support solar panels We should be at the forefront of this and make history for the City. Ms. Alutto stated the importance of thinking about how we design new buildings, multi -tenant buildings business or residential, and to design them in such a way that there is room for trash/recycling, rain barrels, etc. There are ways that homes -- not just new homes, but also existing homes -- can be retrofitted to be greener. She agrees with Mr. Stidhem's comments. Mr. Stidhem stated that the studies that are out now are dated. Solar improves and is more affordable every year. He understands that not everyone will want to do it, but it is where we are going as a country. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that Council has had a number of conversations about residential architecture. Sustainability should be added to the list of new housing stock that Council is seeking. Mr. Fishman stated that he agrees with Mr. Stidhem's comments. Transportation is another big change coming. The City should be insisting upon developments becoming reusable developments — the way we position houses and the way to position solar panels. He appreciates all the conversations. His philosophy is that we want to get what is best for the City in zoning and approving projects. We should focus on getting the best possible product. We don't want to mislead applicants and tell them we love the project because they will spend a lot of money thinking we love the project when we really don't! Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that if the only consideration was economic feasibility, there would be a lot of Walmart stores and Target stores, etc. -- big box stores all over the City. Sometimes the best deals you make in life are the ones you don't enter into! Tours Mr. Papsidero referenced a memo regarding a possible tour on Friday, November 2, 2018, from 9:00 a.m. — 4:00 p.m., and provided a list of locations for Council's feedback. He asked if Council wanted to schedule any speakers at locations because if so, that may shorten the list of tour locations due to time constraints. In response to Ms. De Rosa's question regarding an overview of locations, Mr. Papsidero stated that materials would be given to Council prior to the tour to provide background information. Ms. De Rosa stated that there are some really creative things occurring and she is concerned that shortening the list may not give Council the full picture of what is out there in the development world. Mr. McDaniel stated that he added Harrison Park/Harrison West because it is single-family, higher density that has existed for some time, which would answer some questions that he had received about how these developments perform over time. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes stated that she wants to see as much as they can in a day. Mr. McDaniel stated that he understands that it can be difficult with some work schedules, so he suggested tours could be self -guided or one-on-one if need be. Joint Meeting of Council and Planning and Zoning Commission October 15, 2018 Page 9 of 9 Ms. Alutto asked if PZC would have an interest in a tour also. There was interest among the members present. Mr. Stidhem stated he would do a self -guided tour. Ms. Newell noted she is traveling during the week it is scheduled. Vice Mayor Amorose Groomes suggested doing a Friday tour and a Saturday tour to accommodate work schedules and conflicts. Mr. Papsidero responded that could be done as well. Ms. Fox asked if there is anything additional that staff wants to discuss. Mr. Papsidero stated that there is nothing specific he has in mind to discuss. He is happy to discuss issues before or after a meeting at any time. Staff is looking at planning another training for board and commission members in April. Mr. Stidhem asked if there is anything that the PZC could do better. Mr. Papsidero responded that the Commission does a really good job preparing for the meetings. Ms. Fox stated that we all want to do the best job we can. Mr. McDaniel stated that he appreciates the action on these items. He wanted to let Council know that staff is working on responding to one of Council's retreat items regarding housing He will provide Council a report on those matters and if they would like to have a speaker to help review the information, he will schedule that. Mr. McDaniel thanked Council and the Commission for the time and effort they invest in serving He appreciates all they do. Staff is available to support them and he encouraged anyone to contact staff about any needs. The meeting was adjourned at 7:38 p.m. Deputy Clerk of Council