HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-16-16 Joint Work Session MinutesDublin City Council & Planning & Zoning Commission
Joint Work Session
Monday, May 16, 2016
Minutes of Meeting
Mayor Peterson called the Monday, May 16, 2016 Joint Work Session to order at 6:04 p.m. at
the Dublin Municipal Building.
Council Members present: Mayor Peterson, Vice Mayor Reiner, Ms. Alutto, Ms. Amorose
Groomes, Mr. Keenan, Mr. Lecklider and Ms. Salay.
Planning and Zoning Commission Members present: Ms. Newell, Mr. Brown, Mr. Stidhem, Ms.
Mitchell and Mr. Miller. Ms. De Rosa was absent due to flight delays in returning from out of the
country.
Staff members present: Mr. McDaniel, Ms. Goss, Mr. Papsidero, Ms. Husak, Ms. Rauch, Ms.
Richison, Mr. Tyler, Mr. Earman, and Ms. Readler.
Mayor Peterson welcomed the members of Planning and Zoning Commission and thanked them
for attending this joint session. Mayor Peterson asked that the Planning and Zoning members
briefly introduce themselves.
• Steve Stidhem has lived in Dublin since 1994. He is active in his neighborhood
association and has been on P & Z for a little over a year. He described himself as a
technical person and that serving on this commission has been a great learning
experience.
• Deborah Mitchell joined P & Z at the same time as Mr. Stidhem. She is also active in her
neighborhood association and is focused on growth and strong neighborhoods. Her
background is about brand and meaning. She has enjoyed her experience on P & Z so
far and looks forward to continuing to learn.
• Chris Brown has served on P & Z for a little over a year. He has a construction and
architectural background. He is a detail oriented person. He encouraged those present
to think of walking through a city while being mindful that it is not just about the
buildings that make the impression, it is about the art, the signage, sidewalks, etc.
• Vickie Newell is currently serving her second term on P & Z. Prior to her time on this
commission, she served on the Board of Zoning Appeals. She is an architect and has
experience sitting on the other side of the table as an applicant. She has raised her
family in Dublin and is very proud of this City. She is grateful for the opportunity to
serve.
• Bob Miller has enjoyed his experience serving on P & Z and expressed appreciation to
other members of P & Z, staff and Council Member Salay for their coaching and
guidance.
Mayor Peterson stated that communication is essential between City Council and P & Z. Mayor
Peterson expressed appreciation to Council Member Salay for serving on both P & Z and City
Council.
Minutes of Joint Work Session
May 16, 2016
Page 2
Ms. Salay began Council introductions by stating that through her years on more than one
board, she is aware that it is important to have a shared vision. While everyone won't always
agree, communication is essential between the boards.
Mr. Lecklider noted his history includes serving on Council and Boards and Commissions. He
really enjoyed serving on P & Z and thanked the P & Z members for their time and commitment
to serving. He looks forward to being a sounding board and welcomes open dialogue.
Ms. Amorose Groomes is in her first year of serving on City Council. She served on P & Z for
eight years, six of them as Chair. She appreciates the high standards of the P & Z Commission
and would like to support them as they continue to "carry the torch."
Ms. Alutto is also in her first year of serving on City Council. She appreciates everyone's time
and commitment and is looking forward to learning more about the Planning and Zoning
Commission.
Mr. Keenan was a zoning inspector in Washington Township and a township trustee before his
election to City Council. He is in his fourth term as a Council Member. He stated he is looking
forward to the discussion and would like to hear P & Z comments on Bridge Street and impacts
to Historic Dublin.
Mr. Reiner is an Urban Planner and Landscape Architect. He is currently in his 19' year on
Council. Prior to his service on City Council, he served on P & Z from 1980 -1988. Mr. Reiner
gave a brief history of the state of the City in the 1980's with the creation and implementation
of legislation to safeguard high standards while faced with increased development.
Mayor Peterson stated that he is in his second term on City Council. He sees the City going
through a transitional phase of redevelopment. He looks to P & Z minutes to obtain the details
of their expertise and recommendations.
Mr. McDaniel expressed his appreciation to the P & Z members for their hard work, expertise
and dedication. He stated that the City employs a great team of professionals on staff to
research, support and advise the Commission and Council in their decision process. The new
staff leadership brings a fresh perspective while maintaining the Dublin tradition.
Signs
Mr. Papsidero stated that a request was made by the Commission for staff to explore the Bridge
Street sign code versus the current sign code that covers the balance of the City and to discuss
whether or not the code should be modified.
Ms. Salay stated that she has always been observant of signage and has appreciated the
signage standards in Dublin. Bridge Park has a master sign plan. Dublin Village Center area
signs appear out of place with other signage in the City. She concluded that it was the Bridge
Street sign code that was allowing some of the signage to take place and that this may be the
wrong direction to take. She felt a discussion on the topic was in order to determine if it is the
Minutes of Joint Work Session
May 16, 2016
Page 3
goal to have a deviation from what has been done in the past; and if so, is a precedent being
set?
Mr. Reiner asked if everyone was familiar with the walking area of the Bridge Street district.
The intention was not to set precedent but rather to give a three dimensional artful flare to the
signage of the businesses in that area. It serves to create a wonderful pedestrian experience.
Ms. Newell stated that some of the signage that has been discussed -- for example, KFC -- did
not come before P & Z. It was approved because it complied with the sign code. The sign code
provided that everyone was treated equally and it was consistent. However, the development
of the Bridge Street District brought the need for creativity and different signage code. The
problem comes when the properties that surround the Bridge Street District want to use the
same standards in locations where it may not be appropriate.
Ms. Salay stated that it is in the auto - oriented areas where there are a proliferation of signs.
With Bridge Park being more pedestrian oriented, the signage will be appropriate to pedestrian
traffic.
Mr. Reiner commented that any business can be found now with Google and other search
engines. Awareness is not as much about the signage as it used to be. The Dublin community
is pro- business and will remain that way.
Mayor Peterson sought clarification that the main issue for discussion is that the Bridge Street
District sign package works for that walkable area that was to be created, but applying that
outside that district does not work.
Ms. Newell stated that as long as it is being reviewed in sign packages, it should work.
Currently, staff is being put in the position of regulating the architectural creativity of a sign,
which is difficult due to the subjectivity.
Mr. Keenan inquired about the language in the code and stated if it says, "one size fits all," it
shouldn't because there are exceptions.
Ms. Newell stated that Historic Dublin is always an exception.
Mr. Brown stated that sign legislation can be codified, but issues such as this cannot be put in a
box. Applicants should be encouraged to spend the money on creative art and not take the path
of least resistance. The goal is to have unique signage in Bridge Street; therefore, ratcheting
down the standards is not going to encourage the creativity that is desired.
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that there was initial discussion with Bridge Street that a Graphics
Commission should be established to focus on these types of issues.
Mr. Reiner stated that the strongest tool in the toolbox is polite rejection. He is of the belief
that every time a project is rejected, when the project is brought back it is better.
Minutes of Joint Work Session
May 16, 2016
Page 4
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that Mr. Reiner brings up the important topic of development
standards. The decisions that P & Z make for the community are make or break decisions. If
the Commission and Council demand greatness it will stand the test of time.
Mayor Peterson inquired whether or not Ms. Amorose Groomes believes there are changes
needed in the Development Standards.
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that in the past, the push was forform based code. But form
based code is not serving the purpose that was hoped. She explained that there are unintended
consequences, so the form based code is not serving the City well.
Ms. Salay requested staffs input on the subject of form based codes.
Mr. Papsidero stated that the Bridge Street District is a form based code. The waivers are very
important because they allow projects to be unique. The form based code was the right
approach at the time, and to discard it now may create an impact that is uncertain. The code
needs to be tweaked as developers and staff have learned lessons that will help the process.
The goal is quality investment.
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that the error occurred when the City was undertaking mass re-
zonings. Tweaks and working with what is in place moving forward is best.
Ms. Newell stated that it would not matter which form would be used (when using form based
codes). She explained that as the development is coming forward, noticing the details of the
project and being able to regulate them somehow is what matters. Currently, there is no way
to regulate the construction with the architecture. There is nothing in the development
standards or code that addresses that issue or recycling a building for the future.
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated the only statement in the code that addresses recycling use is that
the building should serve the community over the course of time. She believes there is some
latitude in place.
Ms. Newell commented that another issue that has come up on the Planning and Zoning
Commission is the quality of materials. Performance specifications with quality materials need
to be included in development standards. From a developer perspective, it would be
advantageous to know what to expect and what will be required in materials at the outset of a
project.
Mr. Reiner agreed with Ms. Newell's comments and believes that it is attainable. Mr. Reiner
asked for input from staff and P & Z members regarding the residential code and what can be
done to reinvigorate the quality architecture of homes and attract elite custom home builders.
Mr. Papsidero responded that some building permits require specific reviews on residential
standards. Whether or not they are applied to all residential developments is more of an issue.
Dublin has a residential appearance code that is applied to all single family subdivisions.
Market demand may be another factor that guides the building of million dollar homes. Market
demand is not something that is controlled by the code.
Minutes of Joint Work Session
May 16, 2016
Page 5
Mr. Brown stated that part of the issue is economic development and what do people want to
live around. What are we providing that attracts the CEO's to want to live in Dublin? In
speaking of high standards, the niche may be empty- nesters that want to stay in Dublin.
Mr. Brown circled the discussion back to signs by stating that he does believe that businesses
are more likely to succeed with proper signage. He believes the way that signs are drawn and
measured to be incorrect. He admittedly "straddles the fence" in that he does believe signs to
be necessary and noticeable, but does not want big ugly signs either.
Ms. Newell stated that the way signs are measured creates consistency in planning and zoning
code and provides proportion to the sign.
Mayor Peterson summarized that there is agreement that the code needs to be tweaked. He
inquired about the best way to go about doing that.
Mr. Papsidero responded that staff currently has a consulting firm under contract to begin the
process. Staff needs to hear from the stakeholders to ascertain specifically what changes
should be explored. Then a public review process would be in order, bringing proposed code
amendments before the Commission and ultimately to Council. Administrative challenges will
also be explored as to what non - conformities will surface and how to manage those. He
estimated that the process would take about a year.
Ms. Salay inquired as to whether or not the signage issue could be broke out as a separate
issue that could be addressed more quickly. She is concerned that with all the development
taking place it would be necessary to move this forward more quickly.
Mr. Papsidero agreed that the signage portion could be broken out separately.
Mr. Lecklider suggested that a commitment by Council to the outcome is necessary.
Ms. Amorose Groomes recommended initiating a Graphics Commission instead of code changes.
This solution would allow for one body to hear and address any issues.
Ms. Salay asked how a Graphics Commission would work.
Mr. Papsidero stated that a Graphics Commission could only reviews variances to the graphics
code and the master sign plan, or it could be a body that reviews all signage applications for
approval before obtaining a permit. The only concern would be the number of applications that
come forward. In terms of how it may affect ART, if ART was abolished, it may add work to the
graphics commission, ARB, P & Z, etc. All the implications would need to be vetted.
Mr. McDaniel asked how it would fit in the process. Would it be another step in the process?
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that the sign packages already must be reviewed, so she does not
believe it would be a negative addition to the process.
Ms. Newell stated her opinion is that it may be harder on the developer.
Minutes of Joint Work Session
May 16, 2016
Page 6
Ms. Newell asked why a Graphics Commission would be better than simply P & Z review. She
believes having a united element with one body reviewing would be better.
Mr. Reiner stated that context, height, width, etc. is important and it should be read as one.
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that P & Z is only seeing the first sign, not subsequent signs.
Most are being approved through ART and not by P & Z.
Ms. Newell agreed and stated that she felt the process works well when the signs come in as a
package to be reviewed.
Ms. Salay commented that ART is following the code in place.
Mr. Reiner stated that the scale of the sign in relation to the architecture is very important and
fits into the approval of the sign.
Mayor Peterson summarized that consensus is that the code should be tweaked. It is the
recommendation of staff to have the consulting firm that they have contracted with bring
forward some revisions and then to vet those revisions through stakeholders before beginning
the legislative process.
Mr. Papsidero stated that a report should be available within 30 -60 days of what
recommendations are identified by the consulting firm.
Ms. Alutto inquired as to whether or not the consulting firm could look at the overall process
and whether or not a Graphics Commission would make sense in the process.
Mr. Papsidero responded that the consultant could indeed look at the process. To clarify, he
noted that there is already a master sign plan. No other review is taking place by staff
regarding signs other than to ensure that the permits match the master sign plan. He explained
that if the intent is to have all the signage be reviewed by a commission, that would be a
significant amount of work.
Ms. Salay stated that she believes the master sign plan worked well for the Bridge Park signage
Existing businesses that apply under the Bridge Street Code do not have to come under the
master sign plan. The Dublin Village Center will hopefully redevelop and have a master sign
plan in the future.
ART (Administrative Review Team)
Mayor Peterson invited Mr. McDaniel to give a brief overview of the ART.
Mr. McDaniel stated that ART is a cross - functional review process team comprised of staff. The
process is that a developer comes in to the office, meets with staff and then they work together
to gain efficiency on the road to a successful project. Whether ART exists or not, the cross -
functional process will still exist because it is necessary for developers to work with staff.
Minutes of Joint Work Session
May 16, 2016
Page 7
Mr. Keenan asked Mr. McDaniel to comment on recent ART minutes that reflected the Planning
and Economic Development divisions were going in different directions.
Mr. McDaniel stated that those discussions will always occur at the staff level, but the minutes
are shared with Council so they can review the discussions that take place.
Mr. Papsidero stated that ART is now a more formal process. ART tends to approve very small
projects and minor applications. If Council's direction is to eliminate ART, there would be some
implications; such as, all cases would go to P & Z, creating more handholding for the developer
to foster them through the process.
Mayor Peterson asked for feedback in flushing out the specific concerns about the ART
Ms. Salay commented that ART is misunderstood. Their charge has been a formalization of the
information review with the applicant. They handle smaller, minor applications. Minutes are
generated to inform of any recommendations. An example was discussed to illustrate an
instance when ART and P & Z disagreed on an issue.
Mr. Papsidero stated that the ART deliberately acts conservatively when interpreting the code.
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that she appreciated the more formal process. In speaking to the
difference prior to the existence of ART, Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that in the past, staff
would still be working with the applicant and helping them with preparation to go to the
decision making body, but not making any decisions themselves. ART now makes decisions.
When P & Z reviews a project, and comes to a conclusion about a way a building should look,
then the applicant goes back to the ART to make changes. If the project begins with P & Z and
changes are made, then the project needs to come back to P & Z. In addition, the City website
lists ART as a reviewing body on the Board and Commissions page. She would like a distinction
made to separate it from the other appointed bodies listed on that page.
Mr. Brown agreed with Ms. Amorose Groomes.
Ms. Salay stated that Council doesn't know what application do not go past ART. Ms. Salay
suggested that Council could receive a report quarterly about what is not approved by ART.
Ms. Alutto inquired about modification to the ART. Specifically, she wants to know what is
appealed to P & Z.
Mr. Papsidero stated that the code is narrow in terms of what constitutes an appealable issue.
If ART won't approve a waiver, then it is appealable to P & Z. His recommendation would be to
broaden the language in the code regarding appealable issues.
Ms. Alutto requested that Mr. Papsidero expand his recommendation regarding whether or not
ART should have bylaws.
Mr. Papsidero responded that ART could have bylaws that would serve to govern how ART is to
function.
Minutes of Joint Work Session
May 16, 2016
Page 8
Ms. Alutto asked if any other City uses an ART, and if so, perhaps their bylaws could be shared
with Council.
Mr. Papsidero responded that there is no formal staff review body among other cities. Dublin is
unique in having this type of body -- there is more commonly a hearing officer.
Ms. Alutto asked that Mr. Papsidero explain his recommendation to eliminate the Police
representation on the ART.
Mr. Papsidero stated it was his recommendation because the Police need to weigh in on so few
issues.
Ms. Alutto suggested that additional reporting would help clarify roles and communicate what
applications have come before ART.
Ms. Salay inquired as to whether or not Economic Development thinks ART is valuable in the
process.
Mr. McDaniel commented that his experience has been very positive from a customer service
standpoint. Developers don't usually have the benefit of all the key people in the room to
discuss the project at the same time.
Mr. Brown commented his personal experience as a customer on the St. Brigid expansion
project. They had a great customer service experience.
Ms. Amorose Groomes agreed that the customer service is excellent. Her concern centers more
around the decision making. She believes there should be more clear definitions of minor
modifications. She also would like to see clarity in communication to the community regarding
what ART is — particularly in digital media.
Ms. Newell stated that she always reads what the ART reviews. In most cases, they are minor.
In most cases, it is desirable for them to be the reviewing body. She pointed out the example
of the Dublin Village Center and the Big Sandy's development. She understands the Bridge
Street Code said they could do this, but in the context of the entire development, it did not
improve it. There are only a few cases like this.
Mr. McDaniel suggested that it would be helpful for staff to provide information about what was
proposed for some projects that was not approved by ART. He agreed that clarification is
needed regarding what is a minor modification.
Mayor Peterson suggested that the bylaws could clarify and better address the noted concerns
Mr. McDaniel clarified that, given Council's support of the issues raised, staff will provide follow -
up reports regarding:
• If P & Z reviews an item, any change to that item needs to come back before P & Z;
• Better definition of "minor modification" (to include that if a determination needs to be
made on whether something is minor or not, P & Z will review and state whether or not
that issue is minor);
• Clarification of what ART is to the community — better defined on the website;
Minutes of Joint Work Session
May 16, 2016
Page 9
He clarified that the ART would remain on the website, but there would be a better definition of
what it is and that it is not a board or commission of Council.
Ms. Amorose Groomes stated that the ART should not be listed under Boards and Commissions.
Mr. McDaniel stated that his only concern with that is if people are looking to find information
about the development review process, that is where they look. It is not intended to be
misconstrued as an appointed body by Council.
Ms. Mitchell stated that the framing of it should not just be that it is review. One of the key
things about ART is it is a crossfunctional team that co- creates with customers — it is
collaborative and it is co- creation. It is not a one -way process of evaluating a project.
Whatever is on the web should identify the ART is staff led and staffed, but the framing should
be that it is a value -added service and creative thing that is happening — it is not just review.
Ms. Salay stated that is a good suggestion — highlight it as an asset.
Mr. McDaniel continued, noting the last item to report back about is:
Bylaws
Mr. Peterson stated that perhaps these items can be addressed in the bylaws, but he will defer
to staffs recommendations.
Mr. McDaniel responded that staff may propose some concepts for the bylaws versus drafting
them.
Ms. Salay thanked everyone for attending, listening and participating in the meeting.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:33 p.m.
Clerk of Council